I'm considering the building of a new HT setup, strickly Stereo for mainly music and TV, occasional movie. Mabey possibly surround later in my life lol.
I'm pretty stuck right now on using the Seas L18, possibly the G18 as well, because of the higher xover point. But my problem comes with choosing a tweeter to mate with the L18 (my main choice), as of now i'm considering the Dayton RS28, the North Creek D25, and the Hiqophon(sp?) OW2 (granted the OW2 is much more expensive), and lastly the Seas 27tbfgc.
But i'm really trying to keep my costs as low as possible basically having a budget audiophile setup, and the xover is my main issue right now and will be characterized by the tweet i choose.
I've been hard pressed to find usable xover designs for the drivers i have in question, and not really sure which tweet i should go with, as the North Creek seems nice, but i can't find many reviews on them, and the 10k+ range on the RS28 seems lacking, though i know you can EQ it out in the passive......The Hiquophon is a little out of my price range but looks nice.
So is there any designs out there using the Seas L18 and either Dayton RS28 or Northcreek D25 that are amazing as far as SQ and overall music quality? I happen to listen to alot of Chill type music, as well as music generally like Pink Floyd, and all around mellow styles.
I'm trying to really get a nice inexpensive reference setup for listening to music, and watching tv.....thanks.
EDIT: I keep coming back to John Krutke's Seas L18/27tbfgc design as well, but worry the tweet won't be nice enough for my tastes.....As i'm used to listening to music in my car LPG 26's...which are very highly detailed. So these tweets are very much also considered.
Thomas.
I'm pretty stuck right now on using the Seas L18, possibly the G18 as well, because of the higher xover point. But my problem comes with choosing a tweeter to mate with the L18 (my main choice), as of now i'm considering the Dayton RS28, the North Creek D25, and the Hiqophon(sp?) OW2 (granted the OW2 is much more expensive), and lastly the Seas 27tbfgc.
But i'm really trying to keep my costs as low as possible basically having a budget audiophile setup, and the xover is my main issue right now and will be characterized by the tweet i choose.
I've been hard pressed to find usable xover designs for the drivers i have in question, and not really sure which tweet i should go with, as the North Creek seems nice, but i can't find many reviews on them, and the 10k+ range on the RS28 seems lacking, though i know you can EQ it out in the passive......The Hiquophon is a little out of my price range but looks nice.
So is there any designs out there using the Seas L18 and either Dayton RS28 or Northcreek D25 that are amazing as far as SQ and overall music quality? I happen to listen to alot of Chill type music, as well as music generally like Pink Floyd, and all around mellow styles.
I'm trying to really get a nice inexpensive reference setup for listening to music, and watching tv.....thanks.
EDIT: I keep coming back to John Krutke's Seas L18/27tbfgc design as well, but worry the tweet won't be nice enough for my tastes.....As i'm used to listening to music in my car LPG 26's...which are very highly detailed. So these tweets are very much also considered.
Thomas.
A couple of things - why not use the RS midwoofers? They have tested almost as well as the Seas L series woofers, are a lot cheaper, and there is lots of glowing reviews about their sound quality. Also, why are you worried you won't like the TBFG? It tests as well as the RS28, is cheaper, probably has better QC, and has been given glowing subjective assessments. Personally, it sounds like you are looking for excellent results from this project, more than the learning experience. That being the case, I would build one of the many established designs that use a 7" seas or dayton RS driver, and the tbfg or RS28. Unless you have measurement gear, modelling software, and a fair bit of experience, you are unlikely to better designs like John Krutke or Jon Marsh's. Just my $.02.
Thanks for the reply Morbo, You are right, but i find myself being really critical of everything i choose....Which is why i worry so much when i buy speakers, because i want them to be as good as i can afford.
But i find myself being really struggling to just do it, and not research more and more and more, and hopefully find better for the price.....i'm a research geek.
But i really do just need to put my opinions to the back burner and get something out of my comfort zone, and be happy.....which i struggle to do. I may end up going with the Dayton RS180 or something similar but still undecided.
But i find myself being really struggling to just do it, and not research more and more and more, and hopefully find better for the price.....i'm a research geek.
But i really do just need to put my opinions to the back burner and get something out of my comfort zone, and be happy.....which i struggle to do. I may end up going with the Dayton RS180 or something similar but still undecided.
Sounds like you have analysis-paralysis 😉 something I'm all to familiar with myself. Nothing wrong with obsessing over your choices, just remember that the best way to guarantee the kind of high-end results you want is to build a technically sound design that has been verified to sound very good by many impartial listeners. That way if anything sounds 'off' to you, you can compare notes the designers and/or others whove built them, and if needed make any changes.
If you are this worried about making a wrong decision and not getting the best possible sound now, imagine how worried you will be making all the Xo design decisions. Thats why I say unless you have a lot of time, measuring/modelling tools, and are satisfied with a 'learnign experience' project rather than a 'best performance you can squeez out of that driver combo/budget' project, to build one of the well known designs. The performance of the Seas L/Dayton RS and Seas tweets/RS tweets are close enough that differences due to crossover design will likely swamp the differences due to drivers.
Designs like John and Jon's have many satisfied customers on the forums, plus you have direct access to the designers if for example you find them a little bright, want to convert them to floor standers, etc.
If I were you I would pick either Jon's all metal MT, or one of the modula MTs from HTguide. John's design has been well reviewed, and the modulas have been compared head to head with several other similar designs and come out on top. Search around the PE and htguide forums for comparisons.
If you are this worried about making a wrong decision and not getting the best possible sound now, imagine how worried you will be making all the Xo design decisions. Thats why I say unless you have a lot of time, measuring/modelling tools, and are satisfied with a 'learnign experience' project rather than a 'best performance you can squeez out of that driver combo/budget' project, to build one of the well known designs. The performance of the Seas L/Dayton RS and Seas tweets/RS tweets are close enough that differences due to crossover design will likely swamp the differences due to drivers.
Designs like John and Jon's have many satisfied customers on the forums, plus you have direct access to the designers if for example you find them a little bright, want to convert them to floor standers, etc.
If I were you I would pick either Jon's all metal MT, or one of the modula MTs from HTguide. John's design has been well reviewed, and the modulas have been compared head to head with several other similar designs and come out on top. Search around the PE and htguide forums for comparisons.
Thanks again Morbo for the help.
I'm currently looking pretty indepth at the PE Dayton MTM design, but i still really worry about the tweet response....I know the tweet rocks down low, but that huge dip in the response at 10k just scares me, I'm really used to the sound of the LPG 26na's....which are very nice tweet for the money, and they are rather extended on the upper regions, which is why i worry about the dayton so much. I do know the Seas L/Dayton Ref's are very similar, with cone issues above 3k as i've read.
I'm not exactly sure what i'm wanting, i know i want a very detailed sound, not flat, but more so a very intresting sound that keeps you coming back and intrested for years to come.
I mean right now i'm working with the LPG 26's and Seas CA18's with a tempest in my car....and it blows my HT sound out of the water in detail......The one thing different b/w the two is my Mid.
If i could use my LPG26nafm's in my HT as they are, and upgrade my midbass and upgrade the crossover to the new design then i would be happy i would think.
I had thought about using the CA18 in the HT design as i do love the sound of it, but just not really wanting to use the same speaker, and get out of my boundries and try some new drivers.....but finding a driver with as much detail if not more than the CA18, and the range to be xover at 3.15k or higher is my problem for that.
I could get Dan at Adire to help me with a xover but i would be paying a good amount for them. So this is where i stand really i guess.....I'm happy with my sub, and my tweet, the mid/midbass needs work....plus new cabinets. Any mid ideas?
BTW would be nice if the Mid/midbass was sexy as well, i can't stand having a non attractive, aesthetically pleasing setup. 😀
Sorry thats so long.
I'm currently looking pretty indepth at the PE Dayton MTM design, but i still really worry about the tweet response....I know the tweet rocks down low, but that huge dip in the response at 10k just scares me, I'm really used to the sound of the LPG 26na's....which are very nice tweet for the money, and they are rather extended on the upper regions, which is why i worry about the dayton so much. I do know the Seas L/Dayton Ref's are very similar, with cone issues above 3k as i've read.
I'm not exactly sure what i'm wanting, i know i want a very detailed sound, not flat, but more so a very intresting sound that keeps you coming back and intrested for years to come.
I mean right now i'm working with the LPG 26's and Seas CA18's with a tempest in my car....and it blows my HT sound out of the water in detail......The one thing different b/w the two is my Mid.
If i could use my LPG26nafm's in my HT as they are, and upgrade my midbass and upgrade the crossover to the new design then i would be happy i would think.
I had thought about using the CA18 in the HT design as i do love the sound of it, but just not really wanting to use the same speaker, and get out of my boundries and try some new drivers.....but finding a driver with as much detail if not more than the CA18, and the range to be xover at 3.15k or higher is my problem for that.
I could get Dan at Adire to help me with a xover but i would be paying a good amount for them. So this is where i stand really i guess.....I'm happy with my sub, and my tweet, the mid/midbass needs work....plus new cabinets. Any mid ideas?
BTW would be nice if the Mid/midbass was sexy as well, i can't stand having a non attractive, aesthetically pleasing setup. 😀
Sorry thats so long.
If you want to have a good learning experience and come out with something that sounds pretty decent, go ahead and use the drivers you have on hand and work your way to a crossover. However, I get the impression from you posts that you are very outcome-oriented with this project, rather than process-oriented. You want a great end result more than you want to learn the 'craft', which is fine. That being the case:
Of course drivers have their own sound, but once you get to a certain level (ie the level we are discussing here), the crossover design will make a bigger difference than using a different tweeter for example. And the crossover design will be very hard to get right, especially without measurement/modelling capability. I can just about guarantee you your first attempt at a crossover will not be near as good as the designs mentioned above. I don't mean to go on like a broken record, but if you want guaranteed top notch results, you need to go with a proven design.
oh and if you're looking at the PE mtm, you should look at the natalie P from HTguide. It is a variant of the modula mtm with fewer crossover parts, and there's even a variant with one of the better seas tweeters if you're concerned about the RS28. Several people on the pe forum have said that it is an improvement on the pe MTM using the same drivers.
Of course drivers have their own sound, but once you get to a certain level (ie the level we are discussing here), the crossover design will make a bigger difference than using a different tweeter for example. And the crossover design will be very hard to get right, especially without measurement/modelling capability. I can just about guarantee you your first attempt at a crossover will not be near as good as the designs mentioned above. I don't mean to go on like a broken record, but if you want guaranteed top notch results, you need to go with a proven design.
oh and if you're looking at the PE mtm, you should look at the natalie P from HTguide. It is a variant of the modula mtm with fewer crossover parts, and there's even a variant with one of the better seas tweeters if you're concerned about the RS28. Several people on the pe forum have said that it is an improvement on the pe MTM using the same drivers.
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