Hey Everyone.
So quick question, what are the defining characteristics of enclosures/speakers/drivers designed for positions close to or against a wall?
A lot of plans I see show a lot of depth to the speakers being 20-30cm alone, then the general consensus is to place the speakers 30-90cm into the room itself. Which means the speaker could be digging .5-1m into a room.
I’d have to think a lot of people don’t have the space for this “best without compromise” situation. So I was thinking idly as I play with ideas for a my modest HT set up, what defines a speaker that works well placed hard against a wall (where my TV is hung directly to the wall).
Would love to hear some more about what makes a difference, how we can go about integrating speakers into small rooms/against walls. Which styles of speakers should be avoided (OB and dipole likely). Which are the most helpful, likely high pattern control, etc etc.
Love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
So quick question, what are the defining characteristics of enclosures/speakers/drivers designed for positions close to or against a wall?
A lot of plans I see show a lot of depth to the speakers being 20-30cm alone, then the general consensus is to place the speakers 30-90cm into the room itself. Which means the speaker could be digging .5-1m into a room.
I’d have to think a lot of people don’t have the space for this “best without compromise” situation. So I was thinking idly as I play with ideas for a my modest HT set up, what defines a speaker that works well placed hard against a wall (where my TV is hung directly to the wall).
Would love to hear some more about what makes a difference, how we can go about integrating speakers into small rooms/against walls. Which styles of speakers should be avoided (OB and dipole likely). Which are the most helpful, likely high pattern control, etc etc.
Love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
In my experience:
But I use reflex bookshelfs (with a front slot port), not really rolled off like said in my office, standing on my desk against the wall, and those work rather well. But i like a lot off bass, more than most here would want. They are tuned to 45hz free air, but because they are against a walll, the response in room is actually lower. I took that in account when designing them. In free air i would probally add a subwoofer, but like i'm using them now, it's not really a need.
What many do in the HT world, is use satelites that don't give bass below 80Hz, and use a seperate subwoofer (or more than one) to get the bass. That sub can be anywhere in the room (especially when you have more than one, see the multiple subwoofer theory of Earl Geddes. This also allows to put the satelites against the wall. For best integration make the satelites sealed, and use 2 or more subwoofers spread in the room with dsp to align and tune the setup.
- No ports on the the back or sides. Dipole or OB off course don't work.
- Rolled off bass response (because the wall will emphase the bass) from about 100Hz or even higher. Sealed cabinets often are better in this than ported or TL. But a ported or tl can be tuned like this.
- A cabinet that is wide, but not deep.
- Connectors to the amp that don't stick out on the back help also.
But I use reflex bookshelfs (with a front slot port), not really rolled off like said in my office, standing on my desk against the wall, and those work rather well. But i like a lot off bass, more than most here would want. They are tuned to 45hz free air, but because they are against a walll, the response in room is actually lower. I took that in account when designing them. In free air i would probally add a subwoofer, but like i'm using them now, it's not really a need.
What many do in the HT world, is use satelites that don't give bass below 80Hz, and use a seperate subwoofer (or more than one) to get the bass. That sub can be anywhere in the room (especially when you have more than one, see the multiple subwoofer theory of Earl Geddes. This also allows to put the satelites against the wall. For best integration make the satelites sealed, and use 2 or more subwoofers spread in the room with dsp to align and tune the setup.
+1 and if you're limited to lower SPL than THX reference, i.e. got neighbors to deal with, then recommend single drivers rather than multi-ways or if wanting more of a cinema performance then a horn/woofer two-way or at least one of the 12-15" coax drivers.
In all cases, normally best to put them directly above the TV with the HF closest and depending on the design, room layout, may need to shim them at the top to tilt them to aim at the average ear height.
That said, ideally we want the speakers at the cinema's 2/3 screen height where the folk's heads usually are, so placing the L/R speakers to the sides and using dual CC directly above, below the screen has proven the best overall solution.
In all cases, normally best to put them directly above the TV with the HF closest and depending on the design, room layout, may need to shim them at the top to tilt them to aim at the average ear height.
That said, ideally we want the speakers at the cinema's 2/3 screen height where the folk's heads usually are, so placing the L/R speakers to the sides and using dual CC directly above, below the screen has proven the best overall solution.
People on this site who have tried the Cornu horn have been very pleased and impressed with its capabilities. It is generally mounted on the wall and is only a few inches deep.
For small rooms, and against a wall, my go-to answer will always be the TABAQ.
Put on the floor next to your TV, or hung on the wall.
They are small unobtrusive little towers that perform insanely well, dig low enough for most stuff, much more that their looks, but of course not earth shattering.
Have a look around the thread. Loads of very happy builders in there.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tabaq-tl-for-tang-band.88787/post-7096698
Put on the floor next to your TV, or hung on the wall.
They are small unobtrusive little towers that perform insanely well, dig low enough for most stuff, much more that their looks, but of course not earth shattering.
Have a look around the thread. Loads of very happy builders in there.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/tabaq-tl-for-tang-band.88787/post-7096698
Awesome to see so many suggestions coming out of the woodwork. Thank you so much.
So the main concern with regards to speaker choice for close wall placement is bass design?
Personally I’m building out 2x MAOP 10.3s as L/R in Scott’s Poplar plans or Dave’s trap onkens and an Alpair 10.3 for a centre channel.
Small sealed Pluvia 7HD for surrounds tuned to 90Hz or so.
The MAOP’s are an extravagance for a HT but I’ll have a separate DAC & Amp system that I can switch to which will be my main music listening system (small house!).
So the main concern with regards to speaker choice for close wall placement is bass design?
Personally I’m building out 2x MAOP 10.3s as L/R in Scott’s Poplar plans or Dave’s trap onkens and an Alpair 10.3 for a centre channel.
Small sealed Pluvia 7HD for surrounds tuned to 90Hz or so.
The MAOP’s are an extravagance for a HT but I’ll have a separate DAC & Amp system that I can switch to which will be my main music listening system (small house!).
Last edited by a moderator:
Correct, no baffle step compensation (BSC) required with roll-off a function of which THX XO point you choose.
Where did you land on this? I'm contemplating something similar - MAOPs in Poplar or Silbury, test phantom centre, and no idea what for surrounds and overheads. Need to figure out the subwoofer too, for that matter....!
Poplar (and brethren) are specifically designed for wall placement. The main consideration is a sufficiently damped bass response so that the room gain from being placed against a wall does not exagerate the bass.
There is a specific miniOnken designed for centre use. https://frugal-horn.com/downloads/centre/MarKen103-centreA-271114.pdf
dave
Any speaker alignment can work near/at a wall or in a corner, just need to critically damp them 'in situ’.
Chris has one buried in his HT rack, in wall would be better.
And he is an advocate for a real centre.
dave
And he is an advocate for a real centre.
dave
I wouldn’t exactly say ‘buried’ - it’s sitting on the top shelf of an open equipment rack. The only configuration that works in the ground level room has a wide picture window on the front wall, but a motorized pleated blackout curtain deals with light, and of course wall mounting any of the equipment is out of the question.
Room is approx 16’W x 26’ L x 8’H, main viewing position @ 12ft from screen.
Few of us have the luxury of an optimized dedicated room, so we make the best of what we have to work with*
Just finished installing a cheapie pair of Monoprice 6” 2-ways in the rear wall, which along with a miniDSP 2x4HD for time alignment and PEQ of dual subs achieves a nice little 7.2.4 rig. Enjoyed the hell out of the last couple of episodes of Apple TV+ Foundation S2. When Atmos is mixed well, the effects are very immersive.
* edit : picture of rear wall showing the staircase and passage way door exactly where you wouldn’t want them.
Room is approx 16’W x 26’ L x 8’H, main viewing position @ 12ft from screen.
Few of us have the luxury of an optimized dedicated room, so we make the best of what we have to work with*
Just finished installing a cheapie pair of Monoprice 6” 2-ways in the rear wall, which along with a miniDSP 2x4HD for time alignment and PEQ of dual subs achieves a nice little 7.2.4 rig. Enjoyed the hell out of the last couple of episodes of Apple TV+ Foundation S2. When Atmos is mixed well, the effects are very immersive.
* edit : picture of rear wall showing the staircase and passage way door exactly where you wouldn’t want them.
Attachments
Last edited:
So, here's the thing. Yes, for anything needing both light and noise.
But for pure listening, I'd like to use my dedicated stack (Bluesound Node 2i -> Naim DAC -> Naim NAC282 pre -> Naim NAP155XS). Currently coupled to a pair of PMC Twenty.23s.
Not averse to transitioning to DIY amplification (tubes, Class D, who knows) in the future, nor to applying DSP within that stack, but that's all for the future and waaaay OT.
So in an ideal world I would use the same LR pair for AV and music, and have surrounds/ceiling voiced the same as the LR, subwoofer(s) appropriate to the system/room, and not need a centre (due to other uses of the 3.5x4m room, 3m ceilings)
Did you jump straight to 7.2.4? I'm contemplating a 4.2.2 to begin with, with easy access to ceiling and walls to move to 6/7.2.4 if desired/needed
And do you listen to music through the same setup?
Gotcha. So are you possibly changing from the PMCs to the MAOPs as your mains?
As an easy eq option you could use a PC as a source for your DAC, if you wanted to try some EQ to see the benefits. An easy way to do some light eqing is to run a frequency sweep on YouTube (careful of your volume) and listen out for any big peaks. I just slowly turn down the big peaks in the EQ until they don't sound sound like peaks anymore (easy to accidentally overdo it sometimes).
I use equalizer apo, I think a lot of people here use jriver but I haven't used that. You'll probably find you have massive room gain around 40/50hz. If the only thing you do is turn down that peak, you'll still notice a massive improvement. I don't bother too much with the treble unless there's noticeable peakinees, just do up to 500hz or so.
Let me know if you give it a go! It's literally one of the biggest upgrades you'll get and you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. It will make integrating speakers much easier for sure. You can even eq L/R channel separately if there's a noticeable difference in their response