just for reference purposes, here's a sub-sat system designed by the late & great Marshall Leach - the satellites at ~10 liters are way too big for your wants. A Three-Way Satellite Loudspeaker System
I"m going to try a wideband Faital pro
http://reconekits.com/4fe304midhighspeaker.aspx
I"m going to try a wideband Faital pro
http://reconekits.com/4fe304midhighspeaker.aspx
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visaton subsat designs with build guide.
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The sat
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The sub
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Sats are ported out the bottom, and one sub was for a friend. I used both in one shot to see both sides.
The volume is 1.2 ltrs, with a 1" x 4" port, IIRC. I don't highpass them. The natural rolloff complements well. They have an F3 of about 114 Hz.
Later,
Wolf
The volume is 1.2 ltrs, with a 1" x 4" port, IIRC. I don't highpass them. The natural rolloff complements well. They have an F3 of about 114 Hz.
Later,
Wolf
I was focused on making an uber-mini-monitor, and the W3-315E does midbass very well as well as good midrange. The XT25SC50 and XT25SC90 are virtually identical. I like the XT tweeters a lot.
Later,
Wolf
OK quite some interesting options so far.
1. Visaton NanoSat MK2. Cool looks but as I see it, slightly inferior components.
2. Xenums. Proven concept, nice size. 50 euro + cossover
3. Full range Mark Audio Alpair 7 3gen. Slightly bigger, 75 euro no crossover
4. Full range Tangband W3-1878. Very small, 95 euro no crossover
5. Coaxial Seas prestige L12 RE. 140 euro + crossover
Purely from a quality and purpose point of view, which would be the best as nearfield monitors with a sub?
Should I take into consideration that the full range speakers can not be bi-amped?
Thank you a lot for your input so far!
1. Visaton NanoSat MK2. Cool looks but as I see it, slightly inferior components.
2. Xenums. Proven concept, nice size. 50 euro + cossover
3. Full range Mark Audio Alpair 7 3gen. Slightly bigger, 75 euro no crossover
4. Full range Tangband W3-1878. Very small, 95 euro no crossover
5. Coaxial Seas prestige L12 RE. 140 euro + crossover
Purely from a quality and purpose point of view, which would be the best as nearfield monitors with a sub?
Should I take into consideration that the full range speakers can not be bi-amped?
Thank you a lot for your input so far!
As for looking at test results the price and basket isn't the guarantee for good results.
It works for selling product to have a nice look and feel to it. But the cheep steel basket can perform at same level.
You want to buy nice drivers for your project I understand.
I have no experience how they would sound,so my choice is based on specs and concept. My choice would be the alpair full-range because you will not have cross over phase problems. The metal cone will reproduce nice detail. And it is a real point source.
You can optimize the the response further with a filter if you like. It is still better than a coaxial chassis with filter IMO.
I must say i agree with Helmuth here....with one exception. If these are going to be nearfield monitors a filter network of some kind is essential. On axis, you're going to need to tame the top end rise and raggedness and if no boundary gains from walls or desktop or maybe even with some, a little baffle step comp is going to be required.
A point source using a well filtered full range is as close as it gets for monitoring applications at low to moderate volume in the nearfield. There's tons of good candidates for this application. The suggestions from the group are in some cases akind to different brands of Vodka.....all taste a bit different but in the end they get the job done. Bottle design and marketing play a big role in market success...not unlike fullrange drivers!
I'd throw in the Fountek FR88's as an excellent choice. There's plenty of third party measurements out there to back up their performance.
You're going to want to notch those peaks at 10khz to 16khz but the rest is inaudible and better left alone for the sake of simplicity. If you plan on crossing high to a sub, be sure to keep the sub close or better yet, two smaller stereo subs will give you a better blend and flexibility.
I applaud your desire for a small (read very small 2L) BR, but honesty there's ill gotten gains for anything that small as the required port length in that small of a volume will create some nasty port resonances to deal with smack in the 800-1khz range. Better to be a bit more realistic and closer to 5 liters or so. With a 1.5" (3.8cm) port you'll eliminate unwanted port noise or compression. Anything smaller is asking for an athletic field whistle.
And honestly why so small?. In order to keep them on-axis if they're going to be on a desktop you'll need to raise them up with stands anyway. Why not use that desktop space consumed by stands for enclosure volume. Heck if you can build em to 16" tall, the creative minds here can design a transmission line for you further extending and cleaning up the bottom end some. You're not gonna get stellar bass from drivers with Fs of 90-110hz but a clever design can squeeze out a few more Hz of extension. Just be aware that pushing it to far is going to increase cone travel which will impact midrange clarity. You simply can't have it all in this small driver category.
Hopefully i've cleared up some points for you and given you some tools to make some informative decisions on your own.
I'll throw out there one of my favorite desktop monitoring designs which was a Tang Band W5-1611 in 10 liters BR 16" tall and tuned to 60hz with the driver offset 2" from the top. Slightly off axis in the vertical as intended but all magic on the horizontal with no desktop slapback in the bass. And with near 89db final efficiency these really worked well with a 10w SET.
A point source using a well filtered full range is as close as it gets for monitoring applications at low to moderate volume in the nearfield. There's tons of good candidates for this application. The suggestions from the group are in some cases akind to different brands of Vodka.....all taste a bit different but in the end they get the job done. Bottle design and marketing play a big role in market success...not unlike fullrange drivers!
I'd throw in the Fountek FR88's as an excellent choice. There's plenty of third party measurements out there to back up their performance.
You're going to want to notch those peaks at 10khz to 16khz but the rest is inaudible and better left alone for the sake of simplicity. If you plan on crossing high to a sub, be sure to keep the sub close or better yet, two smaller stereo subs will give you a better blend and flexibility.
I applaud your desire for a small (read very small 2L) BR, but honesty there's ill gotten gains for anything that small as the required port length in that small of a volume will create some nasty port resonances to deal with smack in the 800-1khz range. Better to be a bit more realistic and closer to 5 liters or so. With a 1.5" (3.8cm) port you'll eliminate unwanted port noise or compression. Anything smaller is asking for an athletic field whistle.
And honestly why so small?. In order to keep them on-axis if they're going to be on a desktop you'll need to raise them up with stands anyway. Why not use that desktop space consumed by stands for enclosure volume. Heck if you can build em to 16" tall, the creative minds here can design a transmission line for you further extending and cleaning up the bottom end some. You're not gonna get stellar bass from drivers with Fs of 90-110hz but a clever design can squeeze out a few more Hz of extension. Just be aware that pushing it to far is going to increase cone travel which will impact midrange clarity. You simply can't have it all in this small driver category.
Hopefully i've cleared up some points for you and given you some tools to make some informative decisions on your own.
I'll throw out there one of my favorite desktop monitoring designs which was a Tang Band W5-1611 in 10 liters BR 16" tall and tuned to 60hz with the driver offset 2" from the top. Slightly off axis in the vertical as intended but all magic on the horizontal with no desktop slapback in the bass. And with near 89db final efficiency these really worked well with a 10w SET.
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Hey Mayham
So you say I can't have it all? Bummer! But I hear you on the port noises.
The reason that I want them small is stupid but inescapable. I do my music producng on the table in the living room. So I nee something with a small footprint that I can store away quickly and easily. That is also the reason I want them passive, less cables on the table.
To make things more confusing: does anyone know the Audible Physics AR3K?
audible physics AR3K vs tangband w3-1878 - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality
Mark from Mark Audio also advised around 5 liters for the alpair 7, if I want smaller he advices the alpair 6.
So how do some manufacturers get away with really small enclosures like the anthony Gallo Nucleus? Anthony Gallo Nucleus Micro
So you say I can't have it all? Bummer! But I hear you on the port noises.
The reason that I want them small is stupid but inescapable. I do my music producng on the table in the living room. So I nee something with a small footprint that I can store away quickly and easily. That is also the reason I want them passive, less cables on the table.
To make things more confusing: does anyone know the Audible Physics AR3K?
audible physics AR3K vs tangband w3-1878 - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality
Mark from Mark Audio also advised around 5 liters for the alpair 7, if I want smaller he advices the alpair 6.
So how do some manufacturers get away with really small enclosures like the anthony Gallo Nucleus? Anthony Gallo Nucleus Micro
In a small closed design the cutoff frequency will be higher and also the total Q no problem when you use a sub . That why I can say 3liter for the chr70 closed .
I haven't had a positive experience yet with crossing above 100hz to a single subwoofer. It's too easily locatable and the phase shift from sats to sub is clearly audible and in truth, unlistenable. You may have had better experiences and possibly no HP on the sats helps.....but it certainly doesn't help a small format fullranger in the power handling capabilities which i believe is absolute paramount when mixing.
The higher up the frequency spectrum, the more 'locatable' sounds become to the brain. If your brain locates the subwoofer, stereo seperation and imaging are lost and the listening experience becomes less than desireable. If and a big IF the sub is close enough to the sats and the wavefronts can propogate and arrive failry close in time to your ears, it'll make it harder to locate the sub but common sub placement usually doesn't allow for this to happen all that well. If you're serious in your mixdowns then best not to accept such a compromise.
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