I just hooked up my new DEQ2496 and had a few hours to play with it. I'm sure I barely even tapped what this thing can do but what it has done so far is pretty amazing!
Here's my setup:
CD Player Optical Out -> DEQ2496 Optical In -> DCX2496 Analog XLR In -> Two Teac Digital Amps via RCA -> Line Arrays
I have my DCX2496 hooked up to my line arrays and only set the crossover to 1.98k with LR 24db slopes. I then went into RTA mode, placed my Behringer 8000 mic at ear level where I listen and let it do the Auto EQ. I set it flat from 20 - 20k at first, and saw that it needs to boost 20hz 15db, which obviously means if I'm optimistic to get flat 20hz bass I need to get my dual Shiva sealed sub hooked up. After the Auto EQ was done I popped in a Norah Jones CD and had a listen. At first it sounded pretty different than what I was used to. I listened for 15 minutes, then turned the EQ off and wow, what an improvement! I invited my brother over to have a listen and he was equally impressed. I then grabbed some rock/metal that I'm used to and noticed I wasn't very impressed with the EQ turned on. The mids and bass seemed very thin (I have a few bass bands that are around -3 to -8 EQed) and when I turned the EQ off, the sound came back. I'm thinking this is due to rock/metal recordings being recorded for the average music system. Does this make sense?
The manual is absolute **** so I'm going to need some elementary advice. Anything you guys want to throw at me. In the manual it recommends not correcting for under 100hz...why is this? I see it has a Feedback Destroyer built into it. Should I use this function to tame my bass or just let the Auto EQ handle that?
My next speaker project is a Orion clone with dual Dayton RS12 HiFi woofers, dual Dayton RS180 7" mids and a single Dayton RS28 tweeter. I had initially planned on using the DCX2496 only to set up the crossover and let the DEQ2496 handle all the EQ. Well, since I'm not exactly thrilled with how rock/metal is sounding, should I not take this approach? Note: I have no measurement equipment aside from this. I could take the dipoles outside on a very quiet day, set the DCX/DEQ up and let the DEQ give me a corrected outside curve. I could then transfer that curve over to my DCX2496 and save that setting as a rock/metal setting on the DCX. I will also have a setting with no EQ on the DCX for when I run it with the DEQ and let the DEQ correct it, for when I want to do some critical listening.
One last thing. When I have most CDs playing the DEQ's level lights are usually 1 down from clipping, at -3. When I put in Taproot - Blue Sky Research (great new rock CD) I'm continuously clipping the input. I can't figure out how to adjust the input gain on this thing. Also, when it clips it sounds like the sound pulsates in and out. Very frustrating.
Sorry if this message was so long but I'm not quite sure what to do. I really appreciate any input you guys have.
Thanks!
Here's my setup:
CD Player Optical Out -> DEQ2496 Optical In -> DCX2496 Analog XLR In -> Two Teac Digital Amps via RCA -> Line Arrays
I have my DCX2496 hooked up to my line arrays and only set the crossover to 1.98k with LR 24db slopes. I then went into RTA mode, placed my Behringer 8000 mic at ear level where I listen and let it do the Auto EQ. I set it flat from 20 - 20k at first, and saw that it needs to boost 20hz 15db, which obviously means if I'm optimistic to get flat 20hz bass I need to get my dual Shiva sealed sub hooked up. After the Auto EQ was done I popped in a Norah Jones CD and had a listen. At first it sounded pretty different than what I was used to. I listened for 15 minutes, then turned the EQ off and wow, what an improvement! I invited my brother over to have a listen and he was equally impressed. I then grabbed some rock/metal that I'm used to and noticed I wasn't very impressed with the EQ turned on. The mids and bass seemed very thin (I have a few bass bands that are around -3 to -8 EQed) and when I turned the EQ off, the sound came back. I'm thinking this is due to rock/metal recordings being recorded for the average music system. Does this make sense?
The manual is absolute **** so I'm going to need some elementary advice. Anything you guys want to throw at me. In the manual it recommends not correcting for under 100hz...why is this? I see it has a Feedback Destroyer built into it. Should I use this function to tame my bass or just let the Auto EQ handle that?
My next speaker project is a Orion clone with dual Dayton RS12 HiFi woofers, dual Dayton RS180 7" mids and a single Dayton RS28 tweeter. I had initially planned on using the DCX2496 only to set up the crossover and let the DEQ2496 handle all the EQ. Well, since I'm not exactly thrilled with how rock/metal is sounding, should I not take this approach? Note: I have no measurement equipment aside from this. I could take the dipoles outside on a very quiet day, set the DCX/DEQ up and let the DEQ give me a corrected outside curve. I could then transfer that curve over to my DCX2496 and save that setting as a rock/metal setting on the DCX. I will also have a setting with no EQ on the DCX for when I run it with the DEQ and let the DEQ correct it, for when I want to do some critical listening.
One last thing. When I have most CDs playing the DEQ's level lights are usually 1 down from clipping, at -3. When I put in Taproot - Blue Sky Research (great new rock CD) I'm continuously clipping the input. I can't figure out how to adjust the input gain on this thing. Also, when it clips it sounds like the sound pulsates in and out. Very frustrating.
Sorry if this message was so long but I'm not quite sure what to do. I really appreciate any input you guys have.
Thanks!
I have my DCX2496 programmed with 11 presets to accomodate
different genres of music and/or mood listening driving the line
array.
Preset 1 is mellow and scales in increments to aggressive mode,
preset 11 just by changing simple settings in the DCX.
When I pop in a CD, I recall preset 5 and listen and determine
right away if I need to recall more mellow or aggressive settings.
For metal and rock music I use the more aggressive settings.
I have a spreadsheet showing the settings I use but these
setting are only applicable to my scenario but it may give you
an idea on what my simple methodology is. send me email if
you want to check it out.
different genres of music and/or mood listening driving the line
array.
Preset 1 is mellow and scales in increments to aggressive mode,
preset 11 just by changing simple settings in the DCX.
When I pop in a CD, I recall preset 5 and listen and determine
right away if I need to recall more mellow or aggressive settings.
For metal and rock music I use the more aggressive settings.
I have a spreadsheet showing the settings I use but these
setting are only applicable to my scenario but it may give you
an idea on what my simple methodology is. send me email if
you want to check it out.
Sure, I'd like to take a look at it. It won't let me send you an e-mail:
"Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails through this board. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help."
Shoot me one at mazeroth8 at yahoo dot com
Thanks.
Still looking for more answers 😀
"Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails through this board. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help."
Shoot me one at mazeroth8 at yahoo dot com
Thanks.
Still looking for more answers 😀
Do not understand - you did auto eq and then corrected manually???
After auto eq, I usually only smoothen the diffeernces between bands. I also choose to preset the aute q to a max of =/- 6DB.
I also recommend to connect the deq and dcx via aes/ebu 110 ohm cable.
If you boost the highs to 15 db - no wonder the rest sounds thin...
I do not have a problem with the behringer manual - you just have to read carefully ( english is my second language). It is written very terse w/o any excess information - but it is meant for pro users, so you have to really familiarize yourself with the unit.
Member
Joined 2003
I use the DEQ2496 and like it a lot. However, I get much better results using the manual PEQ function. Auto EQ is good for rough adjustments when you're pressed for time, but results can be erratic. I also recommend the aes/abu connection between the DEQ and DCX.
The DCX itself is actually quite powerful. It takes time to understand the potential...just be patient and experiment. For example, you are not limited to "textbook" electrical xo's when you start combining some of the internal DCX EQ with the filters.
Wings WTW
The DCX itself is actually quite powerful. It takes time to understand the potential...just be patient and experiment. For example, you are not limited to "textbook" electrical xo's when you start combining some of the internal DCX EQ with the filters.
Wings WTW
I use DEQ2496 as well, and have had it permanently in my system for almost a year. I use it in between pre and power amp, and I also use it for the sub.
Thorsten Loesch has written a guide for setting up EQ in units like this. I belive it's in a yahoo user group, but I can dig it up if you like, or google "Eq target curves."
I'm no expert but this is how I use it:
1. run Auto EQ - flat 20 - 20k
2. adjust manually so there is no extreme boost on the top or bottom end, also to remove excessive boost to try to fill in room modes
3. parametric eq - gentle bass boost around 2 - 4 db, I put in a BBC dip and treble tapers off from about 1.5k to 20k @ -2.5 db
I then often turn up the sub just a little above the level I had it calibrated for. I also widen the sterro width a little, dial in a loudness curve which boosts bass at lower levels. I think at one stage I've also used a curve to cut back treble at higher levels. I also use limiters and dynamic filters which reduce dynamic range at high SPL. This means I can rest easier when playing loud as far as clipping goes. I set it so that the filters only kick in when the amp is being pushed hard and is likely to clip anyway.
One time I had friends over for a movie and had to move the speakers into the corners to fit everyone in. I quickly recalibrated, and unlike a previous night when I didn't have UC, the boom from corner loading was taken out of the bass!
Flat does not always sound better. It merely gives you a platform from which to then have some control of the sound you want. Purists might object, but in reality there is always a choice made to the level of bass, how laid back a recording will be, etc. In my room, UC removes a room mode peak around 35 Hz which is actually quite fun to listen to! If you miss things like that, you can always put some boost back in, but when you put it in, you have control.
I find the manual quite easy to follow - I suggest you persist with it a little, but at the same time, keep fiddling.
The RTA is very interesting when watching movies. You will probably be surprised at how much content there is below 40 Hz.
The SPL meter is also a nice feature since you don't have to make allowances if your meter is flat. Just put it in your listening position, put on some music and get a real world idea of what kind of peak SPL you are getting from your system.
Thorsten Loesch has written a guide for setting up EQ in units like this. I belive it's in a yahoo user group, but I can dig it up if you like, or google "Eq target curves."
I'm no expert but this is how I use it:
1. run Auto EQ - flat 20 - 20k
2. adjust manually so there is no extreme boost on the top or bottom end, also to remove excessive boost to try to fill in room modes
3. parametric eq - gentle bass boost around 2 - 4 db, I put in a BBC dip and treble tapers off from about 1.5k to 20k @ -2.5 db
I then often turn up the sub just a little above the level I had it calibrated for. I also widen the sterro width a little, dial in a loudness curve which boosts bass at lower levels. I think at one stage I've also used a curve to cut back treble at higher levels. I also use limiters and dynamic filters which reduce dynamic range at high SPL. This means I can rest easier when playing loud as far as clipping goes. I set it so that the filters only kick in when the amp is being pushed hard and is likely to clip anyway.
One time I had friends over for a movie and had to move the speakers into the corners to fit everyone in. I quickly recalibrated, and unlike a previous night when I didn't have UC, the boom from corner loading was taken out of the bass!
Flat does not always sound better. It merely gives you a platform from which to then have some control of the sound you want. Purists might object, but in reality there is always a choice made to the level of bass, how laid back a recording will be, etc. In my room, UC removes a room mode peak around 35 Hz which is actually quite fun to listen to! If you miss things like that, you can always put some boost back in, but when you put it in, you have control.
I find the manual quite easy to follow - I suggest you persist with it a little, but at the same time, keep fiddling.
The RTA is very interesting when watching movies. You will probably be surprised at how much content there is below 40 Hz.
The SPL meter is also a nice feature since you don't have to make allowances if your meter is flat. Just put it in your listening position, put on some music and get a real world idea of what kind of peak SPL you are getting from your system.
Guys, thank you SO much for the replies! I had time to read through them but not try anything due to being very busy the last two days. I will be sure to try your advice out in the next few days.
One thing I would like help on immediately, if possible, is the fact that I'm going optical out from my DVD player into the DEQ and whenever I add ANY sort of EQ it's auto clipping, and the sound pulsates. When I turn the EQ off I'm usually at -3 db on the meter. Any idea how to turn the input gain down on the optical? I can't figure it out for the life of me.
Thanks again!
One thing I would like help on immediately, if possible, is the fact that I'm going optical out from my DVD player into the DEQ and whenever I add ANY sort of EQ it's auto clipping, and the sound pulsates. When I turn the EQ off I'm usually at -3 db on the meter. Any idea how to turn the input gain down on the optical? I can't figure it out for the life of me.
Thanks again!
The downside with putting UC in front of your preamp is that you remove its volume dependant functions - loudness contours, dynamic filters and limiters, etc. While not essential, I find them useful.
mazeroth said:
On the GEQ screen.. Press the upper small nob, you'll see a dot to the right of the 20K selected. Moving this one up/down (+/-) gain changes the overall gain of the EQ. For example.. If your largest boost is 6db @ 500hz or something like that, set the overall gain to -6db.. You need to be using the latest software to have this function enabled (1.14 or newer)
Regards,
--Chris
DIY_newbie said:
This did lower the clipping a bit. So if my largest EQ is a -12db at 40hz I don't want to move the gain down to -12, correct? Only when I'm applying the boost.
Thanks.
mazeroth said:
You need to look at the range of the EQ. If you have multiple +6 db boosts you will need to reduce more than 6db since the total energy in the signal is boosted. The idea here is to make the entire EQ subtractive instead of additive so that when you pass a 0dbu signal into the DEQ it will output <0dbu no clipping. Your "overall gain" adjustment should be slightly more than the largest +adjustment on your QEQ. In my system a I have several +2 and +3 db bands. I set my "overall gain" to -6 db.
IMHO: Here is the best way to set up your DEQ.
1 - Disconnect outputs of DEQ so it is driving into nowhere. ie Turn off next equipment etc.
2 - Go to IO menu set the input to pink noise generator, set the pink noise to 0dbu level.
3 - Watch the meters are they clipping? If so, reduce the GEQ overall gain till they are not.. I like to leave about 3db headroom to be on the safe side.
4 - Then make sure to put the inputs back to dig/in or main on the IO menu, or you'll be in for one hell of a suprise when you power up your system again.
5 - Verify output meters now show quiet 0 leds lit up.
6 - Connect/power downstream equipment again, your levels should be set correctly now 🙂
--Chris
Chris, thanks for that last bit of advice. I am going to try that tonight.
I'm just setting my DEQ up and I have a couple of questions also. Firstly how long does the AutoEq process take. I am on Page 3 of the AutoEq process, its been about 20 minutes now and the sliders are still moving? Should it take this long?
Secondly once the AutoEq has completed - how do I view what the corrections are that have been made and how do I ensure that I store and use the AutoEq'd settings from then on?
I'm just setting my DEQ up and I have a couple of questions also. Firstly how long does the AutoEq process take. I am on Page 3 of the AutoEq process, its been about 20 minutes now and the sliders are still moving? Should it take this long?
Secondly once the AutoEq has completed - how do I view what the corrections are that have been made and how do I ensure that I store and use the AutoEq'd settings from then on?
joesan said:
AutoEQ will run as long as you let it...
The low knob controls how fast the EQ reacts. Fast = quick update good for gross corrections, low = slow averaged values good for small incrememental improvement..
I always EQ in fast mode to start, then move to mid, then slow.. This allows quick EQ to flat with minor ripple effects, slow down the EQ so that it takes multiple samples and gets better accuracy. When you're satisfied, hit done 🙂
The DEQ is an amazing piece of equipment you'll really be impressed with how much room interaction/speaker resonance it can fix 🙂
To see the amount of EQ its adding during RTA AutoEQ hit "RTA" till you see a bunch of sliders.. hit "RTA" a few more times to get back to the RTA view. After AutoEQ you can use the GEQ menue to see the curve..
BTW: I always EQ in dual mono not stereo so that each channel gets its own specific corrections
Best of luck, keep us updated on your progress
--Chris
Thanks for the reply Chris. That is really helpful - its slowly dawning on me. Played about with the DEQ a bit more this evening - I concur that there is definitely a lot of potential there...
So when I hit AutoEq and let it run for a while when I can see a graph with all the various peaks and troughs - that graph is actually what the DEQ is boosting/reducing, right? In other words when I see a peak of "x"dB at a certain frequency on the AutoEq screen that is the system compensating for a trough of that frequency in my room response? At the start I wrongly thought that I then had to wait for that graph to go to a flat - doh!!!
So that leaves me with three questions -
Is there a way for me to see what the post eq'd curve looks like (i.e. what my response is like after the AutoEq settings have been determined)?
And, sorry to harp on about this one, how do I save the results of the Auto Eq?
And finally what happens when I hit the Room Corrrection button?
Hope you'll indulge me with a little bit more of your experience!
So when I hit AutoEq and let it run for a while when I can see a graph with all the various peaks and troughs - that graph is actually what the DEQ is boosting/reducing, right? In other words when I see a peak of "x"dB at a certain frequency on the AutoEq screen that is the system compensating for a trough of that frequency in my room response? At the start I wrongly thought that I then had to wait for that graph to go to a flat - doh!!!
So that leaves me with three questions -
Is there a way for me to see what the post eq'd curve looks like (i.e. what my response is like after the AutoEq settings have been determined)?
And, sorry to harp on about this one, how do I save the results of the Auto Eq?
And finally what happens when I hit the Room Corrrection button?
Hope you'll indulge me with a little bit more of your experience!
To see your post EQ response do the following:
1) Go to IO Menu, select "pink noise" as input and adjust the gain till its pretty loud
2) Go to RTA menu, select the mic input.
3) View response 🙂
4) Go to bypass menu and bypass the GEQ, go back to step 2 to see pre EQ response
5) Go to IO menue and select anolog or digital input to get back to normal operation..
The AutoEQ saves the reponse when you hit "DONE" on the screen with the sliders..
The RoomCorrection function "tilts" the curve to fix problems, don't use it....
Regards,
--Chris
1) Go to IO Menu, select "pink noise" as input and adjust the gain till its pretty loud
2) Go to RTA menu, select the mic input.
3) View response 🙂
4) Go to bypass menu and bypass the GEQ, go back to step 2 to see pre EQ response
5) Go to IO menue and select anolog or digital input to get back to normal operation..
The AutoEQ saves the reponse when you hit "DONE" on the screen with the sliders..
The RoomCorrection function "tilts" the curve to fix problems, don't use it....
Regards,
--Chris
Chris, thanks man, I'm sure I am coming across as a right dumbass here but - okay so I follow your steps and the DEQ produces the AutoEq'd adjustments. How do I save and reload those adjustements so that I can add a "House curve" on top of the flattened response in the future?
I promise that'll be the last question for tonight! 😉
I promise that'll be the last question for tonight! 😉
when you hit "done" it saves the Auto EQ function as the GEQ setting.
Make sure when you AutoEQ you "reset" the GEQ because the current GEQ setting is the target for the AutoEQ function.
As soon as you hit "Done" and the pink noise stops the Results are copied to the GEQ setting...
--Chris
Make sure when you AutoEQ you "reset" the GEQ because the current GEQ setting is the target for the AutoEQ function.
As soon as you hit "Done" and the pink noise stops the Results are copied to the GEQ setting...
--Chris
press "memory" and then enter your settings as a preset.
I have a series of settings that I store under "AEQ settings" which I select just before I run AutoEQ. This includes a flat target response.
I have a series of settings that I store under "AEQ settings" which I select just before I run AutoEQ. This includes a flat target response.
Paul,
I find it is better to create only a flat AutoEQ and then use the "add" and "subtract" functions. This way you only have to EQ one time..
For example if you save a warm midrange GEQ. you can load the room correction and add the warm midrange to get the desired effect.. You can also subtract the warm midrange from the flat EQ to get a relaxed midrange...
--Chris
I find it is better to create only a flat AutoEQ and then use the "add" and "subtract" functions. This way you only have to EQ one time..
For example if you save a warm midrange GEQ. you can load the room correction and add the warm midrange to get the desired effect.. You can also subtract the warm midrange from the flat EQ to get a relaxed midrange...
--Chris
I'm not sure I totally understand your post.
I don't use GEQ to shape the eq. I use parametric eq for that. If you set the Q values to gives a wide range, it works quite well.
I only use GEQ to get it flat
Then when I look at PEQ I see the changes from flat that I'm making. I find this intuitive, although some may consider PEQ better for room modes.
The way I do it is quick and easy and makes sense to me.
The question about "room correction" is a good one. I can't see the difference when you choose that option. Perhaps someone else can shed light on it.
I choose from memory "AEQ target" which has all my settings. GEQ is set to flat. Then after running auto eq, I merely add on PEQ settings to shape the response a little.
I don't use GEQ to shape the eq. I use parametric eq for that. If you set the Q values to gives a wide range, it works quite well.
I only use GEQ to get it flat
Then when I look at PEQ I see the changes from flat that I'm making. I find this intuitive, although some may consider PEQ better for room modes.
The way I do it is quick and easy and makes sense to me.
The question about "room correction" is a good one. I can't see the difference when you choose that option. Perhaps someone else can shed light on it.
I choose from memory "AEQ target" which has all my settings. GEQ is set to flat. Then after running auto eq, I merely add on PEQ settings to shape the response a little.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.