Hey guys,
After a few tests (BP's, vented, closed), I came to the conclusion that a closed enclosure suits best into my room otherwise the bass gets pretty boomy when listening to music (pretty bad room modes).
But for movies I'm really missing the boom factor on explosions and so on. So my idea was having a flat 10" or 12" vented woofer placed under the couch, which should take care of the additional frequencies < 35 Hz
Would this be in general worth a try? I thought about bass pumps, too, but I don't like this idea pretty much
After a few tests (BP's, vented, closed), I came to the conclusion that a closed enclosure suits best into my room otherwise the bass gets pretty boomy when listening to music (pretty bad room modes).
But for movies I'm really missing the boom factor on explosions and so on. So my idea was having a flat 10" or 12" vented woofer placed under the couch, which should take care of the additional frequencies < 35 Hz
Would this be in general worth a try? I thought about bass pumps, too, but I don't like this idea pretty much
I have thought about that. If you want to discuss with my wife again, feel free 😉
Unfortunately I have only the possibility to place 1 Sub in the front right corner and in addition as a tradeoff I would be able to place something under the couch, since it would be not visible...
Of course I could place here also a 2nd closed sub, which will be then flatter with same volume. But i guess this would not help having better deep frequency feeling, since the f3 here is somewhere at 43 Hz or so
I have DSP room correction and plan that also for the future. All vented constellations I tested as main sub in corner result in boomy music when you are outside of listening position, while my closed sub builds sound pretty harmonic at all positions
Unfortunately I have only the possibility to place 1 Sub in the front right corner and in addition as a tradeoff I would be able to place something under the couch, since it would be not visible...
Of course I could place here also a 2nd closed sub, which will be then flatter with same volume. But i guess this would not help having better deep frequency feeling, since the f3 here is somewhere at 43 Hz or so
I have DSP room correction and plan that also for the future. All vented constellations I tested as main sub in corner result in boomy music when you are outside of listening position, while my closed sub builds sound pretty harmonic at all positions
I did something similar with 3x 15" sealed subs running ~15-25Hz beneath a pair of labhorns. It worked well for me. It might be worth looking into tapped horns or bandpass alignments as you might be able to use a big cab under a couch.
Rob.
Rob.
Hey Rob,
Good to hear that this is in general possible. Talked to 2 guys who build and sell their speakers and they told be it's not a good idea, for whatever reason. As I'm very limited in room design, I currently see this as the only way to have proper music (no "hifi" expecation here), but also some exciting moments when watching movies.
How did you manage your setup and the frequency distribution? I thought about buying a 2*4 MiniDSP since it is on sale now, and running the bassreflex system with a lowpass filter maybe around 35Hz. Hope the device supports it, didn't read the whole manual yet.
Then I could also use the minidsp for some correction of the closed box(es). So my hope is that for mainstream music only, mainly the closed speakers will play, while the bassreflex system will jump in when it comes to movies. I did not run a frequency spectrum analysis for the music yet, but I really hope that there are not many parts lower than 35Hz. The room mode which seems to me to be critically for music is at around 47Hz.
My latest bandpass experiment was a complete fail, i also thought about horns, since i have around 150cm possible length, but I think it would be to "experimental" for me. I'll leave those experiments for equipping my office room in autumn 😉
I spent yesterday afternoon with crawling around and placing the subwoofers types at all different positions, and from only hearing, I think the closed speaker could find its place under the couch since music then sounds nearly good on all spots (except for room corner), while the bassreflex system performs best in the corner regarding roomgain and lower frequencies. Even with only 1*10" instead of the 2, which i have, it was able to produce some rumble in the jungle with only 15 Watt. 🙂
Since placing the sub next or under couch would not benefit of roomgain, I had to put more energy in those speakers to get a proper volume, (Tested it with 1*10", around 86 DB/w SPL), so I'd have to check which speakers would be fine here. I thought about either having 2*10", too or some larger speaker 12-15", but I'm limited in volume (max. around 72 liters).
Any ideas here are warmly welcome, also regarding a possible speaker choice for the closed system, which should be not that expensive
Good to hear that this is in general possible. Talked to 2 guys who build and sell their speakers and they told be it's not a good idea, for whatever reason. As I'm very limited in room design, I currently see this as the only way to have proper music (no "hifi" expecation here), but also some exciting moments when watching movies.
How did you manage your setup and the frequency distribution? I thought about buying a 2*4 MiniDSP since it is on sale now, and running the bassreflex system with a lowpass filter maybe around 35Hz. Hope the device supports it, didn't read the whole manual yet.
Then I could also use the minidsp for some correction of the closed box(es). So my hope is that for mainstream music only, mainly the closed speakers will play, while the bassreflex system will jump in when it comes to movies. I did not run a frequency spectrum analysis for the music yet, but I really hope that there are not many parts lower than 35Hz. The room mode which seems to me to be critically for music is at around 47Hz.
My latest bandpass experiment was a complete fail, i also thought about horns, since i have around 150cm possible length, but I think it would be to "experimental" for me. I'll leave those experiments for equipping my office room in autumn 😉
I spent yesterday afternoon with crawling around and placing the subwoofers types at all different positions, and from only hearing, I think the closed speaker could find its place under the couch since music then sounds nearly good on all spots (except for room corner), while the bassreflex system performs best in the corner regarding roomgain and lower frequencies. Even with only 1*10" instead of the 2, which i have, it was able to produce some rumble in the jungle with only 15 Watt. 🙂
Since placing the sub next or under couch would not benefit of roomgain, I had to put more energy in those speakers to get a proper volume, (Tested it with 1*10", around 86 DB/w SPL), so I'd have to check which speakers would be fine here. I thought about either having 2*10", too or some larger speaker 12-15", but I'm limited in volume (max. around 72 liters).
Any ideas here are warmly welcome, also regarding a possible speaker choice for the closed system, which should be not that expensive
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Hi lvis,
I use a pair of Behringer DCX2496's to do my processing. I've never used the miniDSP stuff but it seems quite well regarded.
If you are happy with your music subs at the moment I would just try and get as many of them as you can under your couch. For the corner sub just aim for the biggest spl you can get out of the space you have available. Something to consider if space is tight is a multiple sealed driver small box with the biggest xmax you can afford and a huge cheap class D pro amp, kind of Linkwitz transform style.
It helps a lot if you have a measurement mic and REW available too.
Cheers,
Rob.
I use a pair of Behringer DCX2496's to do my processing. I've never used the miniDSP stuff but it seems quite well regarded.
If you are happy with your music subs at the moment I would just try and get as many of them as you can under your couch. For the corner sub just aim for the biggest spl you can get out of the space you have available. Something to consider if space is tight is a multiple sealed driver small box with the biggest xmax you can afford and a huge cheap class D pro amp, kind of Linkwitz transform style.
It helps a lot if you have a measurement mic and REW available too.
Cheers,
Rob.
I really wonder, why I can't quote the last post. I always can only quote the posts before, noticed this also in my other thread.
Sliced up the couch yesterday (being watched by my crying wife, hahaha)
Unfortunately, there is not that much height as I thought.
I can get around 30l (1,05 ft³) volume, maybe with some exacter measurements 35-40l
Outside measurements H*W*D would be roughly 5.5"x19.5"x19.5" if I go for a downfire sub.
With upfiring I can get maybe 1" more height, but with the risk that if someone heavier is sitting on the couch quickly, the couch seating area could maybe touch and damage the speaker. To prevent this a solid metal speaker grill might be possible, but somehow I tend to down-firing. Another option I think of would be 2 side-mounted 6" woofers like Tang Band W69-1042J - 6" Subwoofer. Or maybe even 2 boxes with 2 6" each (left and right part of the couch), but I didn't research this possibility in detail.
Current favorite is also an MTX (same manufacturer as for the BR speakers), a shallow sub, MTX FPR12-04 which seems to cover the range from 40-60 Hz pretty good with my measurements, at least in the simulation
Sliced up the couch yesterday (being watched by my crying wife, hahaha)
Unfortunately, there is not that much height as I thought.
I can get around 30l (1,05 ft³) volume, maybe with some exacter measurements 35-40l
Outside measurements H*W*D would be roughly 5.5"x19.5"x19.5" if I go for a downfire sub.
With upfiring I can get maybe 1" more height, but with the risk that if someone heavier is sitting on the couch quickly, the couch seating area could maybe touch and damage the speaker. To prevent this a solid metal speaker grill might be possible, but somehow I tend to down-firing. Another option I think of would be 2 side-mounted 6" woofers like Tang Band W69-1042J - 6" Subwoofer. Or maybe even 2 boxes with 2 6" each (left and right part of the couch), but I didn't research this possibility in detail.
Current favorite is also an MTX (same manufacturer as for the BR speakers), a shallow sub, MTX FPR12-04 which seems to cover the range from 40-60 Hz pretty good with my measurements, at least in the simulation
read dual-opposed design combine with multiple subwoofer approach, guaranteed you'll be amazed
i need around to 2years to complete it, won't regret my investment on time and effort.
Need help : sealed infinity kappa perfect 12.1
i need around to 2years to complete it, won't regret my investment on time and effort.
Need help : sealed infinity kappa perfect 12.1
Would not work out for me due to my restrictions where I can place the subs. In Corner i can only do frontfiring or downfiring, and under the couch there would be no space for such a constellation
Just did some tests with software EQ and some movies. Cutting the vented woofer in the corner at 35 or 40Hz makes no sense. The woofer would be too bored when watching movies. Nearly all explosions and so on seem to have their main frequency somewhere between 40 and 60 Hz and thats then also the range where main bass beats appear.
So it seems to me as i have to stick with a closed sub in the corner enhanced with something under my couch to get more "action" here for movies
So it seems to me as i have to stick with a closed sub in the corner enhanced with something under my couch to get more "action" here for movies
too bad that you have space issue, while i built as big as i can 🙂 150L btw for each cabinet. while my mains use 21" woofer
my setup is cut 40Hz 24dB with behringer nu3000dsp, really shine on bluray movies
if you really want something deep, take out that space constrain and let it go BIG. unless you have WAF issue which is not an issue for me where my wife stay out of my audio gear
Because it was the last post. 😉
The forum recently removed the option to presumably reduce wasted storage, but if you click both the [+] and [reply] you can do it, though prefer you don't unless wanting to copy/paste it on a doc like me, then delete it before posting, ditto editing any you do as much as practical, also a new forum request/rule?
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WRT shallow height, historically I've recommended the largest driver that when laid on its side will physically fit the i.d. height with at least one each end or spaced along the front/back and preferably multiples to get efficiency up as much as practical if budget allows and either up/down firing depending on the amount of HF BW required.
Either way, assuming a sufficiently massive/rigid floor construction, quality materials/construction solves the body/weight problem with DIY mini I-beams made from scrap for bracing the 3/4" marine grade plywood construction, which to date my current max is a decades long handling of up to a 674 lb man once the 'floating' floor was suitably braced with a DIY I-beam supported/braced by metal poles attached to the concrete basement's flooring.
In your case though, the available net volume [Vb] is much lower than I'm used to having available, but with relatively cheap DSP nowadays it doesn't matter how much under-damped it turns out to be, so best to just choose based on lowest Fs drivers you can afford and EQ to 'taste' in room.
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Phew, so much input, thanks for all your hints!
Did some experiments yesterday with the existing speakers (MTX-RT-10). Sound great as downfiring to my massive floor and they will fit into the couch enclosures if the magnet can stay out of enclosure.
Well, masterplan for the next 2 weeks: Since the MTX RT10-4 performed pretty good as closed box in the corner, and also as downfiring in the room middle, and they are pretty cheap at the moment for their parameters (low vas and fs) I'll order 2 more of them. Build 1 closed box for room corner, containing 2 speakers. And build 2 small boxes as downfiring for the couch.
Hope this will finally help also to enjoy music in the whole living room, not only on the couch, and have enough SPL for some decent home cinema, too. As we do not watch that loud, i guess that could work out. 1 MTX as closed box in corrner is already damn loud with a few Watts. For the room middle, they definitely need some more power since the roomgain is missing, but also here my cheap china amp with 30 Watt RMS was pretty loud.
Yep, thanks for the input. My first try was also a bandpass, but it completely failed. So I tried my next experiments with less complicated setups (closed and vented) to avoid too much fails. But a bandpass will definitely come, as well as some Transmissionline for my office, as next project 🙂
Did some experiments yesterday with the existing speakers (MTX-RT-10). Sound great as downfiring to my massive floor and they will fit into the couch enclosures if the magnet can stay out of enclosure.
Considered, yes. Wife is not that happy with that thought, and me, too. I remember a friend of mine had it. Well, it's rumbling and shaking, but if the basic sonic bass is missing, it's more confusing as exciting (in my eyes)
Well, masterplan for the next 2 weeks: Since the MTX RT10-4 performed pretty good as closed box in the corner, and also as downfiring in the room middle, and they are pretty cheap at the moment for their parameters (low vas and fs) I'll order 2 more of them. Build 1 closed box for room corner, containing 2 speakers. And build 2 small boxes as downfiring for the couch.
Hope this will finally help also to enjoy music in the whole living room, not only on the couch, and have enough SPL for some decent home cinema, too. As we do not watch that loud, i guess that could work out. 1 MTX as closed box in corrner is already damn loud with a few Watts. For the room middle, they definitely need some more power since the roomgain is missing, but also here my cheap china amp with 30 Watt RMS was pretty loud.
There's this approach to hide (at least a part of) the sub under a couch. Never tried it but it's an option (I wish they had used an offset TL design though)
The Hideaway TL Sub | audioXpress
The Hideaway TL Sub | audioXpress