HI folks
Is I kind of made my impression about treble in my other post, above 1.5...2 KHz I'm gonna go with a small 1"CD + 90x40° horn
Below 250 Hz there's gonna be a 12" PA driver, something like Fane 12-500LF or Eminence Beta-12A.
I'll go 3-way active for crossovers (dBx, Behringer)
For midrange I would use a 4-6" PA driver or some FR, no experience whatsoever.
So, any recommendation for a reasonable priced driver (100EUR/USD) nice sounding, flat if possible between 250....2000 Hz?
Thanks
Is I kind of made my impression about treble in my other post, above 1.5...2 KHz I'm gonna go with a small 1"CD + 90x40° horn
Below 250 Hz there's gonna be a 12" PA driver, something like Fane 12-500LF or Eminence Beta-12A.
I'll go 3-way active for crossovers (dBx, Behringer)
For midrange I would use a 4-6" PA driver or some FR, no experience whatsoever.
So, any recommendation for a reasonable priced driver (100EUR/USD) nice sounding, flat if possible between 250....2000 Hz?
Thanks
Which horn are you using? Try match size of the mid to the horn so that they both transition from wide to narrow dispersion over about same frequency range. Hint: width of the horn about the same as diameter of the driver.
Most horns seem to be 8" or bigger and it is quite difficult to find 8" PA mid with hifi driver response, B&C 8pe21 is often mentioned and I have a pair but haven't tested them yet. I think there is more options in 6" category.
Most horns seem to be 8" or bigger and it is quite difficult to find 8" PA mid with hifi driver response, B&C 8pe21 is often mentioned and I have a pair but haven't tested them yet. I think there is more options in 6" category.
Hi
These options I have in mind so far the horn:
B&C ME45
P.Audio PH-2370
P.Audio PH-4220
Fane FH.450
Eminence H290s
Exponentials, 90x40°. Somehow, I don't like the sharp edges of CD horns.
My ceiling is quite low, 2.3m, so I'm afraid of the top side reflection. Reason for going at 40° vertical dispersion.
These options I have in mind so far the horn:
B&C ME45
P.Audio PH-2370
P.Audio PH-4220
Fane FH.450
Eminence H290s
Exponentials, 90x40°. Somehow, I don't like the sharp edges of CD horns.
My ceiling is quite low, 2.3m, so I'm afraid of the top side reflection. Reason for going at 40° vertical dispersion.
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These seem all be 10" + in width, you are going to have a step in the horizontal polars at the crossover unless you cross below the horn has lost control of the directivity to a smaller than 10" + driver 
It means that if you EQ the on-axis response flat, the power response has some issues and the speaker sounds colored in room. It doesn't mean you cannot do it, you absolutely can but for better sound quality look for 10" or 12" mid driver for these horns or smaller horn for small mid driver.
It means that if you EQ the on-axis response flat, the power response has some issues and the speaker sounds colored in room. It doesn't mean you cannot do it, you absolutely can but for better sound quality look for 10" or 12" mid driver for these horns or smaller horn for small mid driver.
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I'm using 8pr155 with STH100 horn and it is about good polars match but I suspect a 6" driver would be even better with that horn. Not going to use either on the next project, the 8pr155 has bumpy midrange like most other 8" PA mids I've looked. Yet to try the 8pe21 if it is better or not. The STH100 is beaming, very high treble has too small sweetspot and it is not good since I don't have dedicated listening space and position.
My suggestion is if your speaker can be big go for big mid driver and matching horn. If it needs to be small, go for small mid driver with matching horn. Big horn and driver will control directivity lower in frequency which should yield less early reflections in room in the critical mid band where ear is sensitive. 15" mid and horn will control directivity below 1kHz. It is compromise between size and "sound quality" in this regard. Some people like even omni speakers so the sound quality is considered by the individual.
My suggestion is if your speaker can be big go for big mid driver and matching horn. If it needs to be small, go for small mid driver with matching horn. Big horn and driver will control directivity lower in frequency which should yield less early reflections in room in the critical mid band where ear is sensitive. 15" mid and horn will control directivity below 1kHz. It is compromise between size and "sound quality" in this regard. Some people like even omni speakers so the sound quality is considered by the individual.
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any thoughts on Eminence Alpha-6C?
Or still too small for the horn.
Would it be a dumb idea for two or three FailtalPro 5FE120 side to side, in a kind of horizontal array? to cover the width of the horn. Issues with comb filtering even at this low frequencies?
I have no issues with size, it just not have to be monstrous.
Or still too small for the horn.
Would it be a dumb idea for two or three FailtalPro 5FE120 side to side, in a kind of horizontal array? to cover the width of the horn. Issues with comb filtering even at this low frequencies?
I have no issues with size, it just not have to be monstrous.
For 6" driver a horn about 6" wide is about optimal.
If you have 15" horn three 5" drivers is about the same width so you might research what compromises arise from using multiple small drivers instead of one big and then decide if this is a route you should take. Speaker systems are full of compromises and cant avoid them, only taking educated decisions will get you to your goal with the project. Audio quality is just one of many, price and size and other "costs" are in the other cup. If you want a fast project and have a size and cost limits set by all means use wide horn and small mid. If you want to go deep into designing loudspeakers start researching the options and their compromises, but be sure to have goal set otherwise it takes many years to do the thinking and tinkering without ever getting a speaker finished Wise compromise taking will get you to the goal, or show you the goal is unrealistic. In either case thinking through the compromises as best as you can will help to achieve success.
Sorry I haven't suggested any drivers, so it is all off-topic kind of. Trying to help nevertheless. The Eminence is probably good driver as well as the various Faitals and many others, but they might not be what your project benefits depending on the whole system you are building.
If you have 15" horn three 5" drivers is about the same width so you might research what compromises arise from using multiple small drivers instead of one big and then decide if this is a route you should take. Speaker systems are full of compromises and cant avoid them, only taking educated decisions will get you to your goal with the project. Audio quality is just one of many, price and size and other "costs" are in the other cup. If you want a fast project and have a size and cost limits set by all means use wide horn and small mid. If you want to go deep into designing loudspeakers start researching the options and their compromises, but be sure to have goal set otherwise it takes many years to do the thinking and tinkering without ever getting a speaker finished
Wise compromise taking will get you to the goal, or show you the goal is unrealistic. In either case thinking through the compromises as best as you can will help to achieve success.Sorry I haven't suggested any drivers, so it is all off-topic kind of. Trying to help nevertheless. The Eminence is probably good driver as well as the various Faitals and many others, but they might not be what your project benefits depending on the whole system you are building.
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Check the B&C 8MBX51, relative smooth response, healthy sensitivity, superlow 3rd harmonic distortion in the intended band.
Test Bench: B&C Speaker 8MBX51 Midbass Woofer | audioXpress
Test Bench: B&C Speaker 8MBX51 Midbass Woofer | audioXpress
Ok, not searching necessarily for specific drivers, maybe for design solutions.
Thanks @YSDR looks good. Just that when I see midbass, my mind thinks to an inadequate VAS-Fs or a too heavy mms or for midrange application.
Secondly, an 8" would beam at 1.7kHz, visible also on your graphs.
Another idea I had to cope with the width of the HF horn, was to build a shallow pyramidal horn for the 5-6" midrange. In this way I may also have the chance to geometrically time align the drivers. Need do go to hornresp to check this.
Thanks @YSDR looks good. Just that when I see midbass, my mind thinks to an inadequate VAS-Fs or a too heavy mms or for midrange application.
Secondly, an 8" would beam at 1.7kHz, visible also on your graphs.
Another idea I had to cope with the width of the HF horn, was to build a shallow pyramidal horn for the 5-6" midrange. In this way I may also have the chance to geometrically time align the drivers. Need do go to hornresp to check this.
HI
I think what multiway designs try to achieve over the 2-ways, despite crossovers or number of amplifiers are:
- flatter frequency response
- even polar dispersion over frequency range
- even efficiency
- intermodulation (I read somewhere not u use a driver more that 3 octaves)
I can't understand a 12-15" midbass is going 1 kHz or above.
I think what multiway designs try to achieve over the 2-ways, despite crossovers or number of amplifiers are:
- flatter frequency response
- even polar dispersion over frequency range
- even efficiency
- intermodulation (I read somewhere not u use a driver more that 3 octaves)
I can't understand a 12-15" midbass is going 1 kHz or above.
Dear morgot,
At this juncture, I would suggest that you download the datasheets for few reputed designs (both 2 & 3 ways) and read them thoroughly. Things to note are physical sizes (both horn & LF), crossover choices, driver sizes, selections, power and SPL, polar plots and directivity matching.
You will be surprised to find that many designs work quite well (are THX certified etc.), in spite of not having cared about the 3 octave rule that you just mentioned. You would also note that almost all of them are designed to work much above your required power level.
At this juncture, I would suggest that you download the datasheets for few reputed designs (both 2 & 3 ways) and read them thoroughly. Things to note are physical sizes (both horn & LF), crossover choices, driver sizes, selections, power and SPL, polar plots and directivity matching.
You will be surprised to find that many designs work quite well (are THX certified etc.), in spite of not having cared about the 3 octave rule that you just mentioned. You would also note that almost all of them are designed to work much above your required power level.
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Yeah multiway is the way to go when you don't have issues having crossovers like some people do. Two way + sub could be fine, or three ways what ever tickles you more.
Efficiency ain't problem at home levels and active setup I'd say, but you could take it into account. In living room quite loud seems to be about 95dB measured with some cheap decibel meter, most comfortable loud powerful sound is about 85-90dB for me. This is achieved with around 1W with most direct radiating drivers.
Flat frequency response can be done in the DSP if you have the horn / enclosure stuff sorted so that the off-axis doesn't suffer steps in the crossover region, excess diffraction, beaming and other acoustics related issues that happens where the DSP doesn't have any control, the acoustic domain.
So make sure you know how to get even polar dispersion by the mechanical construct and driver and horn selection and leave the rest to the DSP and you should be fine. There is lot into it, but I'd look Earl Geddes papers since they have things right and quite fast read. But that is a full system, two ways + subs. Anyway, gets you some more info about the issues and you can make your own decisions which way to go considering what you are interested in, how much time and money you can put into this build and don't forget to have fun! I'd pick the most fun route Some stuff may feel too complicated to build at the time, or is going to look ugly or too expensive, so it is fine to choose a system design that feels the best for you in your situation. Big speakers are a lot of fun even though the sound wasn't spot on. Have fun!
Efficiency ain't problem at home levels and active setup I'd say, but you could take it into account. In living room quite loud seems to be about 95dB measured with some cheap decibel meter, most comfortable loud powerful sound is about 85-90dB for me. This is achieved with around 1W with most direct radiating drivers.
Flat frequency response can be done in the DSP if you have the horn / enclosure stuff sorted so that the off-axis doesn't suffer steps in the crossover region, excess diffraction, beaming and other acoustics related issues that happens where the DSP doesn't have any control, the acoustic domain.
So make sure you know how to get even polar dispersion by the mechanical construct and driver and horn selection and leave the rest to the DSP and you should be fine. There is lot into it, but I'd look Earl Geddes papers since they have things right and quite fast read. But that is a full system, two ways + subs. Anyway, gets you some more info about the issues and you can make your own decisions which way to go considering what you are interested in, how much time and money you can put into this build and don't forget to have fun! I'd pick the most fun route
Some stuff may feel too complicated to build at the time, or is going to look ugly or too expensive, so it is fine to choose a system design that feels the best for you in your situation. Big speakers are a lot of fun even though the sound wasn't spot on. Have fun!
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yes, this is my favorite
16" bass
11" midbass
2 x 6.5" midrange
1" dome tweeter
with crosses at 80 / 220 / 2300 Hz
What I am looking here is a 5-6" midrange in the 100$ range for this 250-2000 Hz range.
If I understood correctly, if matched above to a horn, it may have issues, so I have to reflect on this. Maybe I have to pick a tweeter instead.
But two-way is not appealing to me.
16" bass
11" midbass
2 x 6.5" midrange
1" dome tweeter
with crosses at 80 / 220 / 2300 Hz
What I am looking here is a 5-6" midrange in the 100$ range for this 250-2000 Hz range.
If I understood correctly, if matched above to a horn, it may have issues, so I have to reflect on this. Maybe I have to pick a tweeter instead.
But two-way is not appealing to me.
Does it need a minimum efficiency ?
Good sound but not flat impedance curve : Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY , Read what are saying HumblrHomeMadeHifi in his archive list of speakers.
If more efficiently needed, but again not flat impedance curve : Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
There is a hype with this brand as well cause very low disto + constant Le, you can drive them hard while they still sound nice : Boutique Haut-parleurs & Audio DIY
PRV, Eminence, Faital are also loved for their good sound QP ratio, Gravsen seems to like what is doing 18ThSounds with their voice coil as well.
My two cents, not a particular experience with them but the Audax Aerogel that have for my ears something exact & accurate while certainly not easy to work with, same conclusion for the PHL.
BMS coax compression often comes as an advice. But which horn and driver below ? That last has to be fast (Le ?) with a sound that copes a compression ? Faital ? (often low Le drivers). Audax for sure paper a aerogel cones sound nices but in the meantime have old motor design.
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