DCX2496 connected to AVR for 2-Way (Newform)

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LageB

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Joined 2002
Hello all,

I have been using DCX2496 & Panasonic XR45 Receiver same manner as Newform http://www.newformresearch.com/digital-amp-packages.htm and been pleased. It is low-cost solution which uses the Receiver's amplifiers (4 channels 2-way). The receiver's volume control is used, in other words no need for any Volume control arrangement to the DCX2496.

The DCX2496 feeds its signals <Low-Left, High-letft & Low-Right, High-right> from DCX2496 directly to the Receiver's DVD 5.1 analogue input. Then, from Receiver's Front & Surround outputs -> to Woofer and Tweeter respectively.

Newform has been recommending Digital Receivers, such as Panasonic XR models.

Has anyone tried above with other convential (analoge) Receivers? After all, the signals from the DCX2496 is analogue.

I am now considering to use some Denon 7.1 AVR for same purpose. It should not be any problem - or?



LageB
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
LageB said:
I have been using DCX2496 & Panasonic XR45 Receiver same manner as Newform and been pleased. Has anyone tried above with other convential (analoge) Receivers?

I am now considering to use some Denon 7.1 AVR for same purpose. It should not be any problem - or?
Click to expand...

I´m running all 6 channels of an Onkyo TX-SR505E downstream the DCX. No problem at all. Even my rusted Yamaha RX-V595a did work (4 channels). I know of some Denons that did work too.
You may look for a AV receiver with "digital Pre out". That way the receiver could switch your digital sources (NOT analog sources) too.
 
L

LageB

Member
Joined 2002
Rudolf said:


Just plain 3-way stereo.

BTW: I bought my Onkyo used. I had to reset the receiver to factory standards to get rid of some filters (set by the pre-owner?) still working in direct DVD multichannel mode.
Click to expand...

Not "Just plain" .

With my set-up using Panasonic XR45 5.1 AVR I can only use 5 channels, i.e 2-way is max. Now I have woofer, mid + Tweeter and need to make it 3-way (will also start hunting some good 2:nd hand 7.1 AVR)

LageB
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
I see.

Best value for the money would be one of the rare 6.1 receivers, IF it allows to access all 6 power amps individually (which most don´t!). No one seems to want them.

Next best value would be 7.1 receivers without HDMI. But lack of digital video will lower their future resale value too. So money saved today is money lost tomorrow. :rolleyes:
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
LageB said:
I had a quick look at your nice homepage ... The speakers which are shown - are they yours? Is DCX2496 -> AVR being used anywhere?
Click to expand...

No, the examples on www.dipolplus.de are not mine. These are some of my own dipoles:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Latest version. Onkyo and DCX in the background

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

Assorted legacy dipoles:
Left: H frame with coax on OB.
Middle: W frame (Ripol) with two Visaton W250
Right: Same Visatons in "M" frame

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

M frame with Veravox 3 FR driver on OB
 
L

LageB

Member
Joined 2002
Nice pictures Rudolf !

I am glad to find someone who is using similar concept as me - may I ask some other questions?

-1- Amplifier channels
In the upper picture, are you using other external amplifier for the bass modules, i.e via pre-outs on Onkyo? or, are you using only Onkyo's own (6) amplifiers?

-2-
Regarding the cable connection between DCX2496 and the AVR -How did you convert the XLR -> RCA?

I suppose standard is XLR female output (DCX) to RCA input (amp) has 1 to shield, 2 to red, 3 to black with 1 and 3 bridged which I think I have now, using standard cheap conversion plugs.
Earlier there were some discussion in this Forum whether it was better to disconnect pin 1 and 3 or not...

Just curious how you connected it..

Best
LageB
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
LageB said:
In the upper picture, are you using other external amplifier for the bass modules, i.e via pre-outs on Onkyo? or, are you using only Onkyo's own (6) amplifiers?
Click to expand...
I´m using only those 6 Onkyo channels. Max. volume I have used on the Onkyo was 40 (out of an 80 scale). I found that really loud in my 20 m² room, albeit not disco level. The Onkyo gets quite hot then, but its distortion level seems to stay below the distortion of the drivers.
My Onkyo does not have multichannel pre-outs. External amplifiers would have to be connected to the speaker terminals. :bigeyes: Aren´t pre-outs upstream from volume control? In that case you would render the volume control of the receiver useless.
Regarding the cable connection between DCX2496 and the AVR -How did you convert the XLR -> RCA?

I suppose standard is XLR female output (DCX) to RCA input (amp) has 1 to shield, 2 to red, 3 to black with 1 and 3 bridged which I think I have now, using standard cheap conversion plugs.
Earlier there were some discussion in this Forum whether it was better to disconnect pin 1 and 3 or not...

Just curious how you connected it ..
Click to expand...
I have 1 to shield, 2 to signal, and 1 to 3 bridged with a 680 Ohm resistor. Someone told me to do so for safety reasons, but I don´t have the logic behind it at hand. It might have to do with the discussion you mentioned.
I´m not sure what the "3 to black" is all about. Where would black connect in the RCA plug? We are talking mono here, don´t we?
 
L

LageB

Member
Joined 2002
Rudolf said:

I´m using only those 6 Onkyo channels. Max. volume I have used on the Onkyo was 40 (out of an 80 scale). I found that really loud in my 20 m² room.
Click to expand...

Since I'm searching suitable Receiver myself - maybe I should have a look at TX-SR505E ! On the other hand it would probably not be big difference than my existing Xr45..

Rudolf said:

Aren´t pre-outs upstream from volume control?
Click to expand...

Actually I do not know that myself. Nevertheless, I really hope to find Receiver that would be powerful enough to handle my 4Ohm bass modules - i.e avoiding external amps


Rudolf said:

I have 1 to shield, 2 to signal, and 1 to 3 bridged with a 680 Ohm resistor. Someone told me to do so for safety reasons, but I don´t have the logic behind it at hand.
Click to expand...

OK - I will also try that, i.e disconnecting 1 to 3 with 680 Ohm.
I read somewhere that disconnecting 1 to 3 (or connect via large resistor) would attenuate the signal from DCX2496 - can it be correct?


Rudolf said:

I´m not sure what the "3 to black" is all about. Where would black connect in the RCA plug? We are talking mono here, don´t we?
Click to expand...

Forget that, I just copied some text from somewhere else.


Thanks a lot for your inpuit :)

LageB
Stockholm
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
Originally posted by LageB Since I'm searching suitable Receiver myself - maybe I should have a look at TX-SR505E! On the other hand it would probably not be big difference than my existing Xr45..
Click to expand...

There are lots of more powerful AV receivers on the market or on ebay (where I got mine). Most all 7.1 models of Denon and Yamaha will do too. Marantz would be even better, but cost a lot more.
OK - I will also try that, i.e disconnecting 1 to 3 with 680 Ohm.
I read somewhere that disconnecting 1 to 3 (or connect via large resistor) would attenuate the signal from DCX2496 - can it be correct
Click to expand...
Yes, that was one of the proposed advantages. After all the output signal of the DCX is nominally too high for non-PA inputs.
Thanks a lot for your input
Click to expand...
I do have all parts for a 6-gang stepped attenuator and a 6-gang motor potentiometer as well as an 8 channel power amp lyeing around to compliment my DCX. Never got to assemble them. With the AV receiver I was ready-to-go in one afternoon.
So I like to lead everybody on the easy way to a working DCX-amp-combination as good as I can. :D

Have fun.
Rudolf
 
L

LageB

Member
Joined 2002
Rudolf said:

I do have all parts for a 6-gang stepped attenuator and a 6-gang motor potentiometer as well as an 8 channel power amp lyeing around to compliment my DCX. Never got to assemble them.
With the AV receiver I was ready-to-go in one afternoon.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY :D It's lean and simple. To me it is strange that not more people is doing it... ;)

LageB
 
L

LageB

Member
Joined 2002
markus76 said:
Before using just a simple XLR to RCA adapter you need to answer this question: What level does 0dBFS at the input produce at the DCX's outputs if the signal path is set to flat?
Click to expand...

Hello Markus,

I did not ask myself that Question. (Even if I did, I would not know what to do with the answer ....)

I have been using simple XLR/RCA adapter for 3 years and it has "worked" in the sense that have thought the sound to be pretty good. I also do not hear any strange noices, hum, etc. But, occasionally my Panasonic receiver is showing "overflow" and I am curious if it can be helped if I connect same way Rudolf does..

LageB
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
markus76 said:
Before using just a simple XLR to RCA adapter you need to answer this question: What level does 0dBFS at the input produce at the DCX's outputs if the signal path is set to flat?
Click to expand...
OK Markus,
real science would ask for something like a 20 dB (at least) voltage divider between the XLR output and RCA input. But I don´t hear anything like overmodulation/Übersteuerung. Looks like the input stage of the volume control does tolerate some excess voltage. So for the time being I stay with "does work", even if it isn´t "done right". I always like to have something to optimize in the future. ;)
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
markus76 said:
Do you have a multimeter? Then you could measure the output. Does it output 0dBu (0.7746V) or +22dBu (9.75V)? Consumer line level is 0,32 V (-7,8 dBu), right?
Click to expand...

Markus, you got me! :rolleyes:
I put a multimeter (not shure how correct it measures at 1 kHz) to the DCX output and a 1 kHz signal (0 dB) to the digital input. Output level at the DCX output LEDs showed -10 dB (all filters still in the signal path). The multimeter read 4.0 V! So max. output level easily would be 22 dBu. :xeye:

I decided to let the future begin tomorrow. :D

@LageB: I will report the resistor values for the attenuator I end with. There is space enough in those XLR connectors for two more resistors. I hope you are quite familiar with your soldering iron.

@Markus: Since you have a www source for (almost) everything: Any idea at what values (or threads) to start? German ones included of course.
 
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