Hi,
The RSS390HE-22 seems to be one of the new Dayton Audio subs on the market. I was all set to order the UM-15 but started looking at the options and came across this newer option. Has anyone tried one? My main use case is 75% audio and 25% home theatre, I'd give up the lower few Hz for a more refined sound. I was looking to go with a 2.5 - 3 cu.ft sealed box vs vented and use my miniDSP HD to boost the lower end and with some in-room gain it should dig deeper enough.
Thoughts or comments?
The RSS390HE-22 seems to be one of the new Dayton Audio subs on the market. I was all set to order the UM-15 but started looking at the options and came across this newer option. Has anyone tried one? My main use case is 75% audio and 25% home theatre, I'd give up the lower few Hz for a more refined sound. I was looking to go with a 2.5 - 3 cu.ft sealed box vs vented and use my miniDSP HD to boost the lower end and with some in-room gain it should dig deeper enough.
Thoughts or comments?
Hi,
The Reference HE is a solid driver. It's higher quality than the Ultimax. You don't give up anything going to the Reference, it has great xmax and does all the same things but with better overall components. In a sealed box the Reference wins, it has 27mm xmax while the UM15 has only 19mm xmax, so you can push the Reference at lower frequencies and boost it up to about xmax so you get a lot more output down there without exceeding xmax. Their SPL graphs look identical in the same size box (3 cubic feet) other than about a 1.5~1.8db difference due to sensitivity. I just did a model with a +6db boost at 25hz on the Reference driver and it still had another 1mm of xmax left before hitting its limit and that was at 500 watts.
The real comparison is the Reference 390HE vs the SQL-15. They're more similar. And the SQL-15 is on sale.
Very best,
The Reference HE is a solid driver. It's higher quality than the Ultimax. You don't give up anything going to the Reference, it has great xmax and does all the same things but with better overall components. In a sealed box the Reference wins, it has 27mm xmax while the UM15 has only 19mm xmax, so you can push the Reference at lower frequencies and boost it up to about xmax so you get a lot more output down there without exceeding xmax. Their SPL graphs look identical in the same size box (3 cubic feet) other than about a 1.5~1.8db difference due to sensitivity. I just did a model with a +6db boost at 25hz on the Reference driver and it still had another 1mm of xmax left before hitting its limit and that was at 500 watts.
The real comparison is the Reference 390HE vs the SQL-15. They're more similar. And the SQL-15 is on sale.
Very best,
If you have the results handy -- what was the system Q you calculated for 3cuft? My WinISD results don't line up with the ones posted on parts express website.
Hi,
With 3 cubic feet net internal and the RSS390HE-22, The Qtc of the system is 0.698.
With 3 cubic feet net internal and the UM15-22, The Qtc of the system is 0.779.
But the major difference is the xmax. The Reference HE has 27mm xmax while the UM15 has 19mm xmax. That's a big difference in terms of max output at low frequencies, especially if you want to EQ/DSP this to get a flat response down at sub 20hz and into infrasonic bass frequencies. The UM15 will simply max out earlier with the xmax limits. The RSS will keep going. At 800 watts, the UM15 in that 3 cubic foot box meets xmax limits at 29hz. For the same 800 watts, the RSS390HE doesn't hit xmax limits at all, still has more to go all the way to 10hz. So when it comes to EQ and dropping the higher frequencies to shelf it down to the teens frequencies, the UM15 will not have as much output limited by xmax, while the RSS390 will do it and still have room to push more. One could argue that going over xmax is ok, we can't hear the distortion at these frequencies. I'd rather not go past xmax.
Very best,
With 3 cubic feet net internal and the RSS390HE-22, The Qtc of the system is 0.698.
With 3 cubic feet net internal and the UM15-22, The Qtc of the system is 0.779.
But the major difference is the xmax. The Reference HE has 27mm xmax while the UM15 has 19mm xmax. That's a big difference in terms of max output at low frequencies, especially if you want to EQ/DSP this to get a flat response down at sub 20hz and into infrasonic bass frequencies. The UM15 will simply max out earlier with the xmax limits. The RSS will keep going. At 800 watts, the UM15 in that 3 cubic foot box meets xmax limits at 29hz. For the same 800 watts, the RSS390HE doesn't hit xmax limits at all, still has more to go all the way to 10hz. So when it comes to EQ and dropping the higher frequencies to shelf it down to the teens frequencies, the UM15 will not have as much output limited by xmax, while the RSS390 will do it and still have room to push more. One could argue that going over xmax is ok, we can't hear the distortion at these frequencies. I'd rather not go past xmax.
Very best,
Fwiw, I've heard the 12" variants of both the ultimax and the HE in the same setup and same room. I much prefer the HE.
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Interesting, your results were close to mine (I don't have them handy right now). Here is the info from Parts Express (Sealed (home theater/music): 1.9 cubic ft. (gross internal, including driver) for an f3 of 45 Hz, f10 of 26 Hz with a Qtc of 0.707).
In a sealed box, I've never found that reasonable variations in box size make a much of difference in real world performance. Placement + room has a far greater impact than 0.5 cuft for a 15" driver.
The RSS + MiniDSP will go more than low enough, I am not chase the lowest frequencies and most likely I will roll them off with the MiniDSP.
In a sealed box, I've never found that reasonable variations in box size make a much of difference in real world performance. Placement + room has a far greater impact than 0.5 cuft for a 15" driver.
The RSS + MiniDSP will go more than low enough, I am not chase the lowest frequencies and most likely I will roll them off with the MiniDSP.
Hi,
The of the box can have some interesting effects depending on if you want it tight sounding with fast recovery or if you're ok with it being a little sloppy. It's about what you're looking to get out of it. I wouldn't use P.E. numbers at all, I would model it based on the T&S values in WinISD. It's not perfect, but it's probably going to be more realistic.
And yes, the room, placement and how you DSP/EQ integrate it will have way more influence on the real world results than a variation in Q.
You're not chasing the lowest frequencies right now maybe. But if you wanted to, the Reference one would be more appropriate to do that with. So when things change, you already would have the right driver.
Very best,
The of the box can have some interesting effects depending on if you want it tight sounding with fast recovery or if you're ok with it being a little sloppy. It's about what you're looking to get out of it. I wouldn't use P.E. numbers at all, I would model it based on the T&S values in WinISD. It's not perfect, but it's probably going to be more realistic.
And yes, the room, placement and how you DSP/EQ integrate it will have way more influence on the real world results than a variation in Q.
You're not chasing the lowest frequencies right now maybe. But if you wanted to, the Reference one would be more appropriate to do that with. So when things change, you already would have the right driver.
Very best,
I've not built enough sealed enclosures to be able to comment but I am wondering how much the system Q needs to be change to make for a perceptible change in sound. I wouldn't think the there would be much difference from a 0.697 vs 0.707 but interested to hear your comments.
I think a simple way to describe it is the lower Q will sound tighter, less powerful, precise and not boomy. A high Q will sound more boomy, more powerful, lingering. Context matters. For someone who wants very precise reproduction in music, a lower Q might be their preference. Someone listening to bass heavy tracks or movies with lots of subbass content may prefer the higher Q for more oumph. The extreme of a low Q system would be an open baffle system where the Q is the same as the driver's Q basically. A sealed system is a small scale infinite baffle but you can control the Q in it to change the results to be higher Q as you wish. It really is a preference thing. Most folk that love bass seem to like slightly higher Q values. There are some who are extremely into open baffle or low Q sounding bass results though, way less popular. You'd have to listen to both to see where you are in that.
Very best,
Malveaux…. It’s gotta include the enclosure or this often is messed up (I can’t figure it out it’s so hard).. ringing, stored energy, Group delay., Boomy.. high qts and long lower Fb than Fs ‘TL’ im so confused 🤷♂️😆 the more I try them
I've finally gotten around to starting my project with the RSS390HE. I've modelled 3.2 cuft, 3.5 cuft and 4 cut ft boxes and was surprised in how little it changed the modem in WinISD. I was thinking I'd go a little larger but it does not seem to make much of a difference, perhaps adding 1cuft just isn't enough to make a difference.
Any comments?
Any comments?
It won't matter much in a sealed box because it has very high xmax and good power handling. So changing the box from 3.2 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 doesn't matter a whole lot. You get a little more efficiency down in the infrasonic and sub frequencies, but it's roll off is 12db/oct so it's not going to be raised high enough to matter at this scale. It would be different if you were modeling a bass reflex or tapered horn with it. Volume and the tuning would differ greatly. But with a sealed enclosure, you can give it max RMS power and increase the net volume until you hit xmax at the lowest value you care about and stop there. Or sooner, if you don't care about going below 20hz, etc. The smaller the volume, the less efficient, and you'll never get to xmax even at max power. So it's a compromise of efficiency, max power, or one or the other, or neither. Depends on what you want from this.
Very best,
Very best,
I'm also looking at the Dayton RSS390HE-22 to replace 4 older Visaton TIW400 but I'm unsure about the availability of this subwoofer. It's sold out @ partsexpress and I can't find them on the Dayton website either?
It's currently unavailable; something happened in their distribution or manufacturing line pricing.
If you want an excellent alternative that models very similar, its the Stereo Integrity SQL-15 , similar price too on sale.
Very best,
If you want an excellent alternative that models very similar, its the Stereo Integrity SQL-15 , similar price too on sale.
Very best,
The biggest issue with Stereo Integrity is that I live in Europe. And apparently they're out of stock too.
Surely there's a manufacturer over there that produces a 15" driver with 25+mm xmax with low Fs (20's) and 0.5 or less Qts, etc.
Very best,
Look for a sealed target Q of .7 heavily stuffed. Make sure you factor in displacement of the driver itself ti the enclosure volume.....you don't have to be exact but between the magnet displacement and the cone profile from the baffle, .......typical 15" subs displace around .2 cuft
Group delay and impulse response may suffer at bit from a larger enclosure....air spring compliance won't be as firm. Response will flatten and extend farther.......you can decide what works best for you. If you build the enclosure larger, you always have the option to add displacement mass inside the box to tighten things up......ping pong balls glued together with hot glue are a nice way of volume tuning a sealed box for sound quality.
Hello,
The RSS390HE-22 is still unavailable whether in Europe or in the US.
Anyway I was considering css sdx12 which will be available soon.
Any other thoughts?
I am looking for low distortion subbass to pair with my ripole woofer which gives superb bass down to 40-50hz.
I think I will use it very close to listening spot so maybe 12" is enough.
The RSS390HE-22 is still unavailable whether in Europe or in the US.
Anyway I was considering css sdx12 which will be available soon.
Any other thoughts?
I am looking for low distortion subbass to pair with my ripole woofer which gives superb bass down to 40-50hz.
I think I will use it very close to listening spot so maybe 12" is enough.