Bluto said:
I guess I come from a completely different perspective about audio.
most of the people I talk with believe that a full range speaker is a bunch of crap. How does the SAME driver reproduce acurate high frequency sound at 15khz when its also pumping out 200hz midbass waves ???
honestly I still have trouble believing that ANY full range driver is going to sound better than a good Modula MT build...
but I guess I will have to wait and see(or hear 🙂 )
You have to hear to believe 😉illnastyimpreza said:
That being said, I also believe that anything above a 4 inch driver should be accompanied by a super tweeter. These are very simple to add. A simple cap crossed over at 10k or higher and you're done 🙂
Now I'm having second thoughts about the two Dayton RS100S-8 4" drivers I ordered last week. They're inexpensive and looked interesting so thought I'd experiment with them. I've never built speaker cabinets but have sufficient cabinetmaking and metalworking skills, a shop and lots of materials.
I was hoping I could power these with the Peter Daniel LM3875 gainclone kit I'll be building as soon as it gets here. I'm not so sure I made a wise choice on drivers after running the numbers for vented boxes on (WinISD). 231" ports make me wonder if was a bit arrogant in thinking I could do this entirely on my own (hence my 1st post on diyAudio, heh).
I realize in my impulsiveness I may've made an ignorant and amateurish decision, and should've stuck to well-known drivers with a history of successful public-domain designs. My alternate choice would be FE127Es. So... keep 'em? Send 'em back? Any thoughts?
David in SW FL
[BTW, if this matters, my listening proclivities run from chamber ensemble (Early, late Romantic - lots of Schubert lieder) and jazz (Getz, Evans, Peterson, Monk)].
I was hoping I could power these with the Peter Daniel LM3875 gainclone kit I'll be building as soon as it gets here. I'm not so sure I made a wise choice on drivers after running the numbers for vented boxes on (WinISD). 231" ports make me wonder if was a bit arrogant in thinking I could do this entirely on my own (hence my 1st post on diyAudio, heh).
I realize in my impulsiveness I may've made an ignorant and amateurish decision, and should've stuck to well-known drivers with a history of successful public-domain designs. My alternate choice would be FE127Es. So... keep 'em? Send 'em back? Any thoughts?
David in SW FL
[BTW, if this matters, my listening proclivities run from chamber ensemble (Early, late Romantic - lots of Schubert lieder) and jazz (Getz, Evans, Peterson, Monk)].
Vautrin, I also have a pair of the RS100's on the way and I have a pair of BIB's already built. I'll post the results of the match up this next weekend.
illnasty -
As said , you gotta try it. Some people still don't believe in multi weight oil.
See my new post on 'Marconi's'.
Bluto
As said , you gotta try it. Some people still don't believe in multi weight oil.
See my new post on 'Marconi's'.
Bluto
"You have to hear to believe
That being said, I also believe that anything above a 4 inch driver should be accompanied by a super tweeter. These are very simple to add. A simple cap crossed over at 10k or higher and you're done "
Funny that you tell him he has to hear to believe, yet you say anything over 4"s needs a super tweeter.
I guess YOU have to hear to believe. 🙂
............................Blake
That being said, I also believe that anything above a 4 inch driver should be accompanied by a super tweeter. These are very simple to add. A simple cap crossed over at 10k or higher and you're done "
Funny that you tell him he has to hear to believe, yet you say anything over 4"s needs a super tweeter.
I guess YOU have to hear to believe. 🙂
............................Blake
As far as building an in-wall , fullrange surround system, why not use the fe166/7's for your 5 of the 5.1?
You said the volume in between the studs was about 40L and the drivers Vas is 36L , so throw a port in the wall and vent them appropriately .
Use another set of studs/wallspace in the corners for some 10"-12" drivers for subs , and your wife won't have to worry about those bulky cabinets.
You would have an efficient , stealth , crossoverless design that wouldn't even require a BSC.
Just my $0.02
..............................Blake
You said the volume in between the studs was about 40L and the drivers Vas is 36L , so throw a port in the wall and vent them appropriately .
Use another set of studs/wallspace in the corners for some 10"-12" drivers for subs , and your wife won't have to worry about those bulky cabinets.
You would have an efficient , stealth , crossoverless design that wouldn't even require a BSC.
Just my $0.02
..............................Blake
Vautrin said:
Don't worry, all builders have a moment of anxiety - getting in over one's head makes it fun! You have plenty of time to try different configurations, so don't worry if you're first iteration isn't the last. I constantly rework things, and they keep getting better.
Personally, I'd use them open baffle - very simple to design, and sound great. The bass would have to be treated separately. Designing speakers is no simple feat, there is a lot at play, and it takes time to learn even the basics of what one is doing. Anyway, I'm interested in how things turn out.
You can't beat physics. I can live without one, but a super tweeter definately adds to the enjoyment 😉Nihilist said:
Thanks, bassrogue. I look forward to what you find out.
And ciubono...
Thanks for your encouragement. The OB strategy looks like something that will interest me, as it appeals to my sensibilities -- I just like the idea of it. Unfortunately, compactness is also a factor, at least for now, so perhaps I should consider sealed enclosures with these drivers. I suppose they'd suffice until I get my amp up and running. Then I'll probably jump in with both feet and just go crazy trying everything. I can feel my OCD getting ready to kick in.
And ciubono...
Thanks for your encouragement. The OB strategy looks like something that will interest me, as it appeals to my sensibilities -- I just like the idea of it. Unfortunately, compactness is also a factor, at least for now, so perhaps I should consider sealed enclosures with these drivers. I suppose they'd suffice until I get my amp up and running. Then I'll probably jump in with both feet and just go crazy trying everything. I can feel my OCD getting ready to kick in.
Yup -
The fronts and center are located on the wall between studs, and the rears are in ceiling with infinite (well, sorta) volume of the attic. The wall locations would be perfect for the FE167E as volume is close to Vas.
I already have the FE126E and was thinking these for the rears. From what little I know, the FE127E is better than the FE126E in this ceiling application since it has a higher Qts...
Another question...
Why is the RS100S-8 called a 4" driver? It only measures 3 7/8" diameter at the frame edges. The moving parts appear closer to 3" at best and comparing it to other 4" drivers, the RS100S appears considerably smaller. So, is this nominal sizing a common practice among speaker manufacterers or a bit of fudging, and if so, why?
It's not really a problem as long as it performs to spec, but I can't help wondering.
David Barnett in SW FL
Why is the RS100S-8 called a 4" driver? It only measures 3 7/8" diameter at the frame edges. The moving parts appear closer to 3" at best and comparing it to other 4" drivers, the RS100S appears considerably smaller. So, is this nominal sizing a common practice among speaker manufacterers or a bit of fudging, and if so, why?
It's not really a problem as long as it performs to spec, but I can't help wondering.
David Barnett in SW FL
Vautrin said:
Because they are dirty rotten liars.
Only the cheaters do it that way. In the old days, the speaker was measured from center to center on the mounting holes so an 8" driver was a 8" plus on the frame. Nowadays it seems that the frame size also counts and as you see, some even stretch that.
Me too, but not for very long. 😉
Cheers.
Hi all, I received my RS100-8ohm on Friday and put them some BIB cabs I made for the Pio. A11 (96" line, 60" sq, SM)
They seem to work very well in this box with more bass than the A11 down to maybe 55-60 hz. They drop off fast after that. My 50 wpc. Yamaha receiver works fine with the volume up to about half then they get "slappy" on the bass after that. I'll try them on my Tubelab 300B next.. I'm happy with the sound so far. 🙂
They seem to work very well in this box with more bass than the A11 down to maybe 55-60 hz. They drop off fast after that. My 50 wpc. Yamaha receiver works fine with the volume up to about half then they get "slappy" on the bass after that. I'll try them on my Tubelab 300B next.. I'm happy with the sound so far. 🙂
I couldn't care less what size they claim the things to be. They do perform to spec, and the fact that they are tiny makes them alot easier to place. Heck, these things use significantly less baffle space than the face plates I use with my Neo3 tweeters. Oh, and just in case anyone has missed this commentary from me, they sound really GOOD.
And thanks for that observation, bassrogue. I haven't gotten far on building enclosures for them yet (having too much fun listening on quick cut baffles made from 25 year old cardboard, plus I've got a 4 month old in the house in addition to a 6 year old and a teacher wife who's off for the summer and already clawing up the walls with cabin fever), but everything I've done with them so far has indicated that you should not feed them anything below 50Hz if you can manage it. Hearing that even a BiB does little to keep them from distorting around 50Hz basically seals any plans I had for building more aggressive enclosures with them.
Kensai
And thanks for that observation, bassrogue. I haven't gotten far on building enclosures for them yet (having too much fun listening on quick cut baffles made from 25 year old cardboard, plus I've got a 4 month old in the house in addition to a 6 year old and a teacher wife who's off for the summer and already clawing up the walls with cabin fever), but everything I've done with them so far has indicated that you should not feed them anything below 50Hz if you can manage it. Hearing that even a BiB does little to keep them from distorting around 50Hz basically seals any plans I had for building more aggressive enclosures with them.
Kensai
I should have been a bit more clear when I said they were slapping on the bass notes.
I have the BIBs in a 15'x25' room and was playing them fairly loud with the 50 watt receiver. I've had them playing all evening with the 300B and I have not heard them slap or breakup at all. Bass is good enough that my wife in the back of the house didnt know I'd changed speakers. Not getting a bunch of volume from my 7 or 8 watts though.😉
I have the BIBs in a 15'x25' room and was playing them fairly loud with the 50 watt receiver. I've had them playing all evening with the 300B and I have not heard them slap or breakup at all. Bass is good enough that my wife in the back of the house didnt know I'd changed speakers. Not getting a bunch of volume from my 7 or 8 watts though.😉
Oh, I understood you plenty. Under any circumstances are you getting response below 50Hz wiht your BIBs without the RS100 slapping? I had been hoping I could load these into a standard, single fold 6' tall BiB and get to under 40Hz with these, but I had been fairly certain that this was a pipe dream (not sure if I intended a pun there or not ;-p )
Kensai
Kensai
This thread is getting more interesting as it goes.
The QTS on that driver made me wonder from the onset if it wouldn't model better in OB than the BIB.
This may prove an excellent addition for clearer mids in OB combined with a big Eminence or even the Goldwood high QTS drivers.
Yet another candidate for the Poor Mans Orion.
Bluto
The QTS on that driver made me wonder from the onset if it wouldn't model better in OB than the BIB.
This may prove an excellent addition for clearer mids in OB combined with a big Eminence or even the Goldwood high QTS drivers.
Yet another candidate for the Poor Mans Orion.
Bluto
Bluto, what Poor man's Orion?
I have designed and built one...ok, I need the OB driver, but the amplifiactaion and sub is set, the cosmetics are done. All that is needed is a suitable driver for the OB portion. I'll be posting a write up in affordable$$audio when completed.
I have some old Altecs that would be pretty nice and some Hemps Acoustics, too. But any speaker of OB operation interests me...
stew
I have designed and built one...ok, I need the OB driver, but the amplifiactaion and sub is set, the cosmetics are done. All that is needed is a suitable driver for the OB portion. I'll be posting a write up in affordable$$audio when completed.
I have some old Altecs that would be pretty nice and some Hemps Acoustics, too. But any speaker of OB operation interests me...
stew
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