Hi
I'm interested in trying a passive, asymmetrical crossover for fixed height listening.
Only have basic c/o experience (did a SEARCH and couldn't find the answers)
I wish to make a relatively small HF section using a pair of Tang Band 3" neodymium drivers (like TB W3-1364, 86dB sens) I have on-hand, crossed over at 3.5kHz to a pair of small planar tweeters(91dB sens), also on-hand. The sensitivities should match well with the two W3's in parallel. The inter-driver distance is approximately 3.25 inches.
Due to smooth, extended response of the W3 and high low end cutoff of the planar, I was wondering if I could pair a 1st Order(Butterworth) low-pass with a 3rd Order (Butterworth) high-pass both filters selected for the 3.5kHz c/o transfer? I'm hesitant to use 3rd order LP on the W3, because I'd prefer to keep the mid-band filter simple (i.e. fewer reactive elements).
I have read about successful designs using asymmetrical crossovers, and that both 1st order and 3rd order filters have 90 degree phase. (I also read about someone combining 2nd a order L-R with a 3rd Order Butterworth, but heard that the driver polarities were reversed, which I'd like to avoid).
Anyone have experience doing this, and if so, can you give any pointers?
Thanks
I'm interested in trying a passive, asymmetrical crossover for fixed height listening.
Only have basic c/o experience (did a SEARCH and couldn't find the answers)
I wish to make a relatively small HF section using a pair of Tang Band 3" neodymium drivers (like TB W3-1364, 86dB sens) I have on-hand, crossed over at 3.5kHz to a pair of small planar tweeters(91dB sens), also on-hand. The sensitivities should match well with the two W3's in parallel. The inter-driver distance is approximately 3.25 inches.
Due to smooth, extended response of the W3 and high low end cutoff of the planar, I was wondering if I could pair a 1st Order(Butterworth) low-pass with a 3rd Order (Butterworth) high-pass both filters selected for the 3.5kHz c/o transfer? I'm hesitant to use 3rd order LP on the W3, because I'd prefer to keep the mid-band filter simple (i.e. fewer reactive elements).
I have read about successful designs using asymmetrical crossovers, and that both 1st order and 3rd order filters have 90 degree phase. (I also read about someone combining 2nd a order L-R with a 3rd Order Butterworth, but heard that the driver polarities were reversed, which I'd like to avoid).
Anyone have experience doing this, and if so, can you give any pointers?
Thanks
Why not start by simulating a crossover with the chosen drivers using the proposed slopes? It should indicate what is feasible, and what you are also interested in is the final acoustic response, not the electrical topology used to create it.
Low component count is no guarantee of final result; more a question of what is sufficient to shape the desired response; this depends on driver response in box, in room.
Why do you wish to avoid inverting polarity?
Low component count is no guarantee of final result; more a question of what is sufficient to shape the desired response; this depends on driver response in box, in room.
Why do you wish to avoid inverting polarity?
I must have missed this earlier. Mixing 1st and 3rd isn't going to keep 90 degrees. Since the response of the drivers is included, you'd be better trying to start with 3rd on both. The driver distance will have a hand in that.
Why not
“Why not start by simulating a crossover with the chosen drivers using the proposed slopes? “
Ok. I don’t have alot of conputer gear (just older laptop), nor any experience in measuring or design.
What inexpensive apps are available that could help me do that?
Thanks
“Why not start by simulating a crossover with the chosen drivers using the proposed slopes? “
Ok. I don’t have alot of conputer gear (just older laptop), nor any experience in measuring or design.
What inexpensive apps are available that could help me do that?
Thanks
WinPCD, XSim, VituixCAD all would do well for free software. You'd have to go off the spec sheets, though. Also read Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
Basic process is to trace the SPL and impedance responses for each driver - the "SPL Trace" function in VituixCAD is very good for this, though there are other tools.
Load these into the crossover software and inspect the slopes; then keep tweaking to get something looking good in terms of on-axis response, phase and impedance.
Basic process is to trace the SPL and impedance responses for each driver - the "SPL Trace" function in VituixCAD is very good for this, though there are other tools.
Load these into the crossover software and inspect the slopes; then keep tweaking to get something looking good in terms of on-axis response, phase and impedance.
The 90 degree D'Appolito is a tiny bit more involved than the average crossover. Chasmo, you mention fixed height listening. This is typical. The way the speaker performs off the listening axis is still important and this is what this crossover type addresses.
When I said distance has a hand in this, I was talking about phase, which also relates to the filter order. This is taken care of when you measure using fixed timing. REW, HolmImpulse, ARTA are some good measurement programs. If your computer has a soundcard with an in and an out, you can get yourself a non-USB microphone and arrange a phantom power supply for it.
When I said distance has a hand in this, I was talking about phase, which also relates to the filter order. This is taken care of when you measure using fixed timing. REW, HolmImpulse, ARTA are some good measurement programs. If your computer has a soundcard with an in and an out, you can get yourself a non-USB microphone and arrange a phantom power supply for it.
“If your computer has a soundcard with an in and an out, you can get yourself a non-USB microphone and arrange a phantom power supply for it.“
My Acer laptop only seems to have a headphone jack, and device sound in input manager only shows selection of two internal microphone configurations. Too bad, ‘cause i got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 measuring microphone, which I had used with a tablet conputer(RIP).
Is there any way to use it now (my new cellphone doesn’t have an 1/8” jack anymore (?).
Without buying a new computer or tablet, I’m wondering how to do any of the above-recommended work?
Thanks
My Acer laptop only seems to have a headphone jack, and device sound in input manager only shows selection of two internal microphone configurations. Too bad, ‘cause i got a Dayton Audio iMM-6 measuring microphone, which I had used with a tablet conputer(RIP).
Is there any way to use it now (my new cellphone doesn’t have an 1/8” jack anymore (?).
Without buying a new computer or tablet, I’m wondering how to do any of the above-recommended work?
Thanks
I tend to use REW and just hand adjust crossover values to get the response right.
The main thing you are looking to avoid is a null around the crossover point. You measure response without the tweeter or woofer and then take a measurement with them combined.
Usually you may need to spread crossover points to avoid a small peak at the crossover frequency with odd order slopes..
The main thing you are looking to avoid is a null around the crossover point. You measure response without the tweeter or woofer and then take a measurement with them combined.
Usually you may need to spread crossover points to avoid a small peak at the crossover frequency with odd order slopes..
"I tend to use REW and just hand adjust crossover values to get the response right."
Forgive my ignorance- what's REW (rewind comes to mind).
Just remembered i have an old iPhone5 that will work with e the Dayton mike, Any particular (free) app for iOS that will work here?
Thanks
Forgive my ignorance- what's REW (rewind comes to mind).
Just remembered i have an old iPhone5 that will work with e the Dayton mike, Any particular (free) app for iOS that will work here?
Thanks
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software
Real useful for measuring speakers if you have a mic.
You take multiple measurements and compare them easily.
Also you may not need a high quality if measuring mid frequencies not not extremes.
Real useful for measuring speakers if you have a mic.
You take multiple measurements and compare them easily.
Also you may not need a high quality if measuring mid frequencies not not extremes.
Your next option would probably be a USB sound card. In and out need to be on the one device, and some already have the phantom power you need for the mic.
Any recommendations for an inexpensive USB sound card that would enable such
measurements? My iMM-6 mic seems to be designed for 1/8” media jack, would it still be useful (I have the calibration data for this one)?
Thanks
measurements? My iMM-6 mic seems to be designed for 1/8” media jack, would it still be useful (I have the calibration data for this one)?
Thanks
“Behringer=$90”
A bit Out of my budget. I’ll try the Audiotools app with my Dayton mike,
and load REW onto my laptop. These i already have on hand and were cheap.
Is it possible to use these together, in any concerted way, to see how my
crossover changes are affecting the loudspeaker amplitude response?
Thanks
A bit Out of my budget. I’ll try the Audiotools app with my Dayton mike,
and load REW onto my laptop. These i already have on hand and were cheap.
Is it possible to use these together, in any concerted way, to see how my
crossover changes are affecting the loudspeaker amplitude response?
Thanks
Hi.
It looks like Linkwitz-Riley slopes may be used instead.
I've started by downloading XSim, but am confused about the proper use.(it seems like everybody and their brother has a video on YouTube).
Can anyone recommend a good, simple tutorial for XSim ? I'll try to figure this out for myself; otherwise I'll be back for help if needed.
Thanks for any recommendations.
-Charles
It looks like Linkwitz-Riley slopes may be used instead.
I've started by downloading XSim, but am confused about the proper use.(it seems like everybody and their brother has a video on YouTube).
Can anyone recommend a good, simple tutorial for XSim ? I'll try to figure this out for myself; otherwise I'll be back for help if needed.
Thanks for any recommendations.
-Charles