no, fundamentally different designs. Please check patent , you'll see, they directly outline the differring philosophies. Besides, I'd bet serious money the TI is better , despite price difference.
tritosine said:
Well I´ve heard resistive roumors that AD and TI made this ASRC together, and that they are completely the same, as well as they also use the same algorithms. As the TI is the cheapest, this will be used in our DAC project, we just actually had some 1896 in the drawer.
I do not have any doubt that TI makes top notch components, but so do Analog, they just both have their special skills where ie. Analog sometimes develops op-amps with almost impossible data, and TI ie. did the same with the digital filter in the PCM1792/94A DAC chips.
nanocamp said:
Fully agree. 4 month later all to see is the cabinet?
Just aside the casing image, you´ll see a 3d image of the PCB itself.
Earlier in this thread you´ll see the schematics of the analog stage.
At this time we still don´t have any final PCB layout for the clock circuit.
I´m sorry that we are not that fast, but it is a matter of time available for engineering and testing, as well as it was not easy to find vendors for the casing work, actually the rear cover will be made in Germany. the rest in DK.
The testing is actually the most time consuming matter in building electronics of this kind and stage. Many hundreds of listening hours has run into listening to this design, as well as choice of components.
The complete schematics incl. the digital section is not finished yet either.
You can belive me when I say, that I now fully do understand why DIYérs and most proffesional designers choose op-amp design and IC regulators. We engineered a design like that for a cheaper and easier project, which migt be more suitable for DIY. That took no more than a few days.
So that is why nothing yet happened.
Kurt von Kubik said:
Why you come here to DIY if your design is not suitable for DIY?
But you are right, it's better to have a look at projekts that i can understand - because it was visble.
nanocamp said:
Why you come here to DIY if your design is not suitable for DIY?
But you are right, it's better to have a look at projekts that i can understand - because it was visble.
Well You could say so - but we are actually DIYérs, and we just wanted to share the project, either as a DIY project or as a semi DIY project. We now realized that as a DIY project, this will probably cause more trouble than joy, and unfortunately it is not a cheap project. For us it cannot be made in numbers lower than 10, and even then it is pretty costly. Manufactured in Europe in this kind of numbers would bring the price in a hifi store beyound 7.500 € incl. manuals, brochures, distribution, warranty, support, Vat, EMC testing and everything else you can think of.
Besides this wat everybody else in the business does, we think this is crazy.
In large numbers it would be a lot cheaper, and in Sony numbers, it would even be attractive from a value per € point of view.
In DIY eyes a lot of money could be saved by mounting the components by hand, but try it out, 300 components of which only about 25 are hole through, the rest is very small SMD components, which calls for extreme precission when soldering.
Good luck I´d say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NN7...AC2E7354&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24
So Kurt Kubik alias "von auspuff " when do you offer the dac for a listening test in Copenhagen HiFi club ?
Now I think your design is much better than the first we heared 2 years ago. Seems like you have listened to the critic. 😉
Now I think your design is much better than the first we heared 2 years ago. Seems like you have listened to the critic. 😉
Erlend Sæterdal said:
Well we think we have a loaner example ready around the end of august, but by now a bunch of "fanatics" already booked it for listening. So we don´t really know when it is possible to lend you a DAC, we hope it will be this year.
Btw. The design you mentioned was engineered without post LP filtering, which means that there always will be noise around 400KHz just aprox 15-16 dB below full scale at all times.
This is not just good for most electronics, so I recommend to be very carefull with component matching, when the old prototype is used.
The new design incoorporates post LP filtering @ 100KHz 2. order and can easily be changed to other lower freguencies if needed.
This is not just good for most electronics, so I recommend to be very carefull with component matching, when the old prototype is used.
The new design incoorporates post LP filtering @ 100KHz 2. order and can easily be changed to other lower freguencies if needed.
Availability
I am working in Silkeborg, close to Aarhus, the next few months. Any chance of auditioning your completed DAC ? The CS4398 is quite nicely integrated in a Swedish DAC by Harmony design, and the latest gen of top of the line Marantz players use this chip in a nice way as well. I agree that implementation of DAC chip is of higher importance than choice of manufacturer of latest gen of highperformance DACs. 🙂
I am working in Silkeborg, close to Aarhus, the next few months. Any chance of auditioning your completed DAC ? The CS4398 is quite nicely integrated in a Swedish DAC by Harmony design, and the latest gen of top of the line Marantz players use this chip in a nice way as well. I agree that implementation of DAC chip is of higher importance than choice of manufacturer of latest gen of highperformance DACs. 🙂
Re: Availability
You are welcome for an audition of the DAC project.
Silkeborg is just around 50 Km´s away from Århus, so it should be peace of cake to get here, as both highways, trains and busses are at reach.
If possible, bring one thing of your own things, to put into the chain, which you know very well, that always makes it much easier to land on your feet in an unknown site.
Just a proposal.
About the choise of DAC chip, I agree with you.
You can find newer designs with ie. 32 bit options, but they do not seem as they were ment for high fidelity, which goes for all of the types we found available.
Most significant was, that some 32 bit DAC chips calls for 5V powersupply even in the digital section, which calls for PCB layout and voltage regulators practically impossible to engineer. Thus they were discarded.
At this time we therefore felt confident with the CS4398, because we did not seem to be able to get better performance from other chips. Lately we implemented upsampling which further improves performance of the 4398 dramatically, both technical as well as audible.
The very upside of the CS4398 chip is, that it needs neither smoothing nor anti aliasing filters, it just needs to have its working frequency @ 3-400 KHz removed from its output.
MarcH said:
You are welcome for an audition of the DAC project.
Silkeborg is just around 50 Km´s away from Århus, so it should be peace of cake to get here, as both highways, trains and busses are at reach.
If possible, bring one thing of your own things, to put into the chain, which you know very well, that always makes it much easier to land on your feet in an unknown site.
Just a proposal.
About the choise of DAC chip, I agree with you.
You can find newer designs with ie. 32 bit options, but they do not seem as they were ment for high fidelity, which goes for all of the types we found available.
Most significant was, that some 32 bit DAC chips calls for 5V powersupply even in the digital section, which calls for PCB layout and voltage regulators practically impossible to engineer. Thus they were discarded.
At this time we therefore felt confident with the CS4398, because we did not seem to be able to get better performance from other chips. Lately we implemented upsampling which further improves performance of the 4398 dramatically, both technical as well as audible.
The very upside of the CS4398 chip is, that it needs neither smoothing nor anti aliasing filters, it just needs to have its working frequency @ 3-400 KHz removed from its output.
You mentioned that the shunt regulator is not secret design. Could we at least have a look at that? I have not seen yet a stable regulator with low output impedance to such high frequency as you mentioned, not in reality, not in simulation; so, I'm curious.
Regards.
Regards.
ikoflexer said:
I will see what I can do, as already mentioned, we did not finish schematics yet, as some decissions still were to be made. At this time we are experimenting with the clock design which is an ad on module to be placed just above the AD1896.
Anyways the design is not secret at all, we just decided to produce as few as possible, to get one ourselves, which means 10 pcs.
Then we will drop this project, as it simply is to complicated for self soldering.
But we are actually working on a new design, based on op-amps (both NFB and FB versions will suit the PCB), which makes it a lot easier to get through.
We think that a partslist @ digikey and a possibility to buy PCB´s somewhere would be fine. Then DIYérs can do the solderwork.
More about that later.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.