Hi,
I'm looking for the service manual / schematics of Cyrus One (the newest, 2016-2019) amp.
Any hints?
Thx a lot to everyone
I'm looking for the service manual / schematics of Cyrus One (the newest, 2016-2019) amp.
Any hints?
Thx a lot to everyone
Cyrus normally will not release schematics. Service shops sign an NDA, so they can't give them out.
They aren't being nasty. Experience has shown most repair attempts destroy their products. Many manufacturers have run into the same problem, and while I agree with right to repair, I would change that phrase to read, "right to repair properly". That last word is the problem.
They aren't being nasty. Experience has shown most repair attempts destroy their products. Many manufacturers have run into the same problem, and while I agree with right to repair, I would change that phrase to read, "right to repair properly". That last word is the problem.
Hi Anatech,
thank you very much for your prompt reply.
Frankly speaking, I have never thought that they are nasty persons. They legitimately hold the intellectual property of their products so they are free to distribute or not the relevant technical documentation.
Therefore, those who intend to carry out the repair themselves know perfectly that they act at their own risk.
Just a thought: often attempts at self-repair are justified by the disproportionate costs asked by authorized/official repair centers. In some cases, those costs can even exceed the intrinsic value of the item...
thank you very much for your prompt reply.
Frankly speaking, I have never thought that they are nasty persons. They legitimately hold the intellectual property of their products so they are free to distribute or not the relevant technical documentation.
Therefore, those who intend to carry out the repair themselves know perfectly that they act at their own risk.
Just a thought: often attempts at self-repair are justified by the disproportionate costs asked by authorized/official repair centers. In some cases, those costs can even exceed the intrinsic value of the item...
Hi flambart,
I understand both sides of the argument. I was authorized warranty for Cyrus in Canada. My personal experience was that most "repair shops" did poor work and damaged Cyrus equipment, some past being able to be repaired. This was also true for most brands. Even dealer service was terrible. When I started my career, most service people were professional with very good workmanship. We had hacks back then, talking late 1970's. Today, most service I see is horrible, some criminal.
Now for charges. You have no idea how highly trained a good service person is. I have over $100 K, probably closer to $200K worth of equipment. I have over $20K in parts inventory. So .. like what is that worth? I'll tell you the service industry rates were subsidized by distributors to the point where the shops closed. No one could afford to do business honestly and have a shop, never mind staying current with training and equipment. The few good people left doing audio (most went to industry) work from home. I had a 6,000 sq ft shop that was busy with a staff of techs and accounting office. Did business internationally, recording studios, commercial sound and home audio.
If you don't feel the charges are worthwhile, okay. That's your deal. I'm not arguing, but if you stop to consider what is required to perform good service you might change your mind. If you can't afford it, that is another question.
Now for right to repair. Agree, you should be able to. However you cannot make that decision to repair yourself if you haven't got any idea of how much you need to know, how to properly do the job and proper parts. The sad fact is, many "repaired by owner" devices end up being sold, and cause problems for the new owner because the work wasn't done even close to correctly. I love it when people can do repairs themselves, but know when to stop and involve trained people. I very often tell people what they can do themselves. But there is a line that when crossed doesn't end well.
Cyrus is one of the better designed products out there, and I have no current relationship with them. I can say similar for a number of other brands I don't have a relationship with, but did. It is a shame when someone destroys one of these products. With Cyrus, much is surface mount. We still need to match some components, which is never done by untrained people. The worst damage I see is PCB damage, you need the right equipment even for soldering. You also need experience.
This is much like someone deciding they are a doctor, or bridge engineer without knowing fully what is involved. Does this sound reasonable to you? It is true many "service engineers" have no business plying their trade. But the ones that are good are worth every penny they charge. Doing it properly isn't easy. It also requires a significant investment in equipment and training. YouTube isn't even close, the base knowledge takes decades to learn.
I understand both sides of the argument. I was authorized warranty for Cyrus in Canada. My personal experience was that most "repair shops" did poor work and damaged Cyrus equipment, some past being able to be repaired. This was also true for most brands. Even dealer service was terrible. When I started my career, most service people were professional with very good workmanship. We had hacks back then, talking late 1970's. Today, most service I see is horrible, some criminal.
Now for charges. You have no idea how highly trained a good service person is. I have over $100 K, probably closer to $200K worth of equipment. I have over $20K in parts inventory. So .. like what is that worth? I'll tell you the service industry rates were subsidized by distributors to the point where the shops closed. No one could afford to do business honestly and have a shop, never mind staying current with training and equipment. The few good people left doing audio (most went to industry) work from home. I had a 6,000 sq ft shop that was busy with a staff of techs and accounting office. Did business internationally, recording studios, commercial sound and home audio.
If you don't feel the charges are worthwhile, okay. That's your deal. I'm not arguing, but if you stop to consider what is required to perform good service you might change your mind. If you can't afford it, that is another question.
Now for right to repair. Agree, you should be able to. However you cannot make that decision to repair yourself if you haven't got any idea of how much you need to know, how to properly do the job and proper parts. The sad fact is, many "repaired by owner" devices end up being sold, and cause problems for the new owner because the work wasn't done even close to correctly. I love it when people can do repairs themselves, but know when to stop and involve trained people. I very often tell people what they can do themselves. But there is a line that when crossed doesn't end well.
Cyrus is one of the better designed products out there, and I have no current relationship with them. I can say similar for a number of other brands I don't have a relationship with, but did. It is a shame when someone destroys one of these products. With Cyrus, much is surface mount. We still need to match some components, which is never done by untrained people. The worst damage I see is PCB damage, you need the right equipment even for soldering. You also need experience.
This is much like someone deciding they are a doctor, or bridge engineer without knowing fully what is involved. Does this sound reasonable to you? It is true many "service engineers" have no business plying their trade. But the ones that are good are worth every penny they charge. Doing it properly isn't easy. It also requires a significant investment in equipment and training. YouTube isn't even close, the base knowledge takes decades to learn.
I really appreciate your professional point of view, and I generally agree with what you say.
I can therefore understand that the repair costs (and the previous necessary cultural investment!) must be recognized and consequently rewarded.
What I want to clarify is that sometimes trying to repair your own devices is an understandable alternative (at least from an economic point of view) to an expensive repair or even to a scrapping solution. Of course, when it is reasonably possible: and in any case, at your own risk...
Anyhow, thanks again for the time and expertise you are dedicating to this friendly discussion. It is always extremely interesting for me to compare my personal (and sometimes, partially blind) opinions with the reasons of those who are more professionally experienced.
I can therefore understand that the repair costs (and the previous necessary cultural investment!) must be recognized and consequently rewarded.
What I want to clarify is that sometimes trying to repair your own devices is an understandable alternative (at least from an economic point of view) to an expensive repair or even to a scrapping solution. Of course, when it is reasonably possible: and in any case, at your own risk...
Anyhow, thanks again for the time and expertise you are dedicating to this friendly discussion. It is always extremely interesting for me to compare my personal (and sometimes, partially blind) opinions with the reasons of those who are more professionally experienced.
Well, I didn't take any offence.
My caution is simply that some repairs involve a lot of things that are unknown to someone who isn't a professional, so making decisions on what they think they know turns out wrong. If they knew everything thing needed, they could make a more informed decision. I really try to save people money. When an unsuccessful attempt is made it can over double the cost of repair, that doesn't make me happy at all.
Another solution would be to wait until a proper repair is affordable. These things normally last decades with no trouble, so a reasonable repair charge isn't that bad. It works to the level it should, and is reliable. I've seen a lot of stuff that never worked properly after the first repair. Those customers may as well have bought something cheap to replace the good unit that wasn't fixed properly. Those people got ripped off for the sound they should have had, sometimes for decades until the unit hit a good repair person.
Anyway, I try to answer knowing the entire world can see these posts. My goal is to reduce equipment being ruined, and to reduce the costs of having something repaired. If there is something the average person can do properly ... GREAT! I'll help them do it.
My caution is simply that some repairs involve a lot of things that are unknown to someone who isn't a professional, so making decisions on what they think they know turns out wrong. If they knew everything thing needed, they could make a more informed decision. I really try to save people money. When an unsuccessful attempt is made it can over double the cost of repair, that doesn't make me happy at all.
Another solution would be to wait until a proper repair is affordable. These things normally last decades with no trouble, so a reasonable repair charge isn't that bad. It works to the level it should, and is reliable. I've seen a lot of stuff that never worked properly after the first repair. Those customers may as well have bought something cheap to replace the good unit that wasn't fixed properly. Those people got ripped off for the sound they should have had, sometimes for decades until the unit hit a good repair person.
Anyway, I try to answer knowing the entire world can see these posts. My goal is to reduce equipment being ruined, and to reduce the costs of having something repaired. If there is something the average person can do properly ... GREAT! I'll help them do it.