Hi,
I've made Cyburgs Sticks too. I did box 1 cm smaller in width and 1 cm bigger in depth. Volyme and tuning are same. Enclosure is 16 mm MDF finished with real birch veneer.
Sound is... How I can say? Bass is very strong even in my 20-30 m2 room. But I'm not pleased with midrange and treble. Highest treble has fade off and midrange is not very detailed. Of course we are speaking about 22 € speaker. Total cost for pair is about 130-140 € because of high quatily components ja box materials. Good thing is that girlfriend likes looks 🙂 First comment when amplifier was off was that they look nice! 😀 Women....
I've listening them for a couple of hours and they might sound better later when rubber surrounding has softened.
Here is links to my pictures and project (in finnish).
http://picasaweb.google.com/ali.makinen/LaajakaistatTBW4657SC
http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=58678
I've made Cyburgs Sticks too. I did box 1 cm smaller in width and 1 cm bigger in depth. Volyme and tuning are same. Enclosure is 16 mm MDF finished with real birch veneer.
Sound is... How I can say? Bass is very strong even in my 20-30 m2 room. But I'm not pleased with midrange and treble. Highest treble has fade off and midrange is not very detailed. Of course we are speaking about 22 € speaker. Total cost for pair is about 130-140 € because of high quatily components ja box materials. Good thing is that girlfriend likes looks 🙂 First comment when amplifier was off was that they look nice! 😀 Women....
I've listening them for a couple of hours and they might sound better later when rubber surrounding has softened.
Here is links to my pictures and project (in finnish).
http://picasaweb.google.com/ali.makinen/LaajakaistatTBW4657SC
http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showthread.php?t=58678
MuaDibb said:
I am in the midst of building this BIB (unfolded 7 ft design), would like to see a separate thread especially if you have pictures...
gychang
@alspe:
Very nice woodwork, these are one of the nicest sticks I've seen so far!
Unfortunately I am not surprised that you are not satisfied with the sound they produce, although you did everything right, except one essential thing: You took the wrong driver!
The Stick is constructed for the W4-655SA, it will also work well with the W4-655A, which has nearly the same parameters, but the W4-657SC is a totally different animal.
If you look at the basic parameters (both measurements from german diy-loudspeaker magazine Hobby-Hifi which delivers very good measurement data in my experience):
W4-657SC: fs 46 Hz QTS 0,36 VAS 10 l
W4-655SA: fs 72 Hz QTS 0,36 VAS 4,5 l
You see that these two drivers need totally different enclosures. The W4-657SC needs only a simple and quite small BR-enclosure to give nice bass. The double bass reflex enclosure of the Stick is seriously misaligned for this driver.
The frequency response of the W4-657SC is also not compareable with the W4-655SA. It has some quite heavy dips and peaks, where the W4-655SA is quite smooth. So the correction filters of the stick do absolutely not fit to the W4-657SC, which furthermore is, and I may quote Hobby-Hifi again (translation by me): "Although the W4-657SC of Tangband is only a mediocre Fullrange speaker, it is an excellent midbass driver, perfect for a small monitor speaker with Highend-ambitions."
So I can only strongly suggest to equip your very nice speakers with W4-655SAs, then the sound will fit to the optical impression. 🙂
Nice greetings, Berndt
edit: And please use black screws ;-)
Very nice woodwork, these are one of the nicest sticks I've seen so far!
Unfortunately I am not surprised that you are not satisfied with the sound they produce, although you did everything right, except one essential thing: You took the wrong driver!
The Stick is constructed for the W4-655SA, it will also work well with the W4-655A, which has nearly the same parameters, but the W4-657SC is a totally different animal.
If you look at the basic parameters (both measurements from german diy-loudspeaker magazine Hobby-Hifi which delivers very good measurement data in my experience):
W4-657SC: fs 46 Hz QTS 0,36 VAS 10 l
W4-655SA: fs 72 Hz QTS 0,36 VAS 4,5 l
You see that these two drivers need totally different enclosures. The W4-657SC needs only a simple and quite small BR-enclosure to give nice bass. The double bass reflex enclosure of the Stick is seriously misaligned for this driver.
The frequency response of the W4-657SC is also not compareable with the W4-655SA. It has some quite heavy dips and peaks, where the W4-655SA is quite smooth. So the correction filters of the stick do absolutely not fit to the W4-657SC, which furthermore is, and I may quote Hobby-Hifi again (translation by me): "Although the W4-657SC of Tangband is only a mediocre Fullrange speaker, it is an excellent midbass driver, perfect for a small monitor speaker with Highend-ambitions."
So I can only strongly suggest to equip your very nice speakers with W4-655SAs, then the sound will fit to the optical impression. 🙂
Nice greetings, Berndt
edit: And please use black screws ;-)
OK, thanks for advice.
I knew that driver is (slightly) different but time when I bought driver's there were no W4-655SA's in Finland. I thought that 657SC's would be enough close. I'm often too optimistic 🙄
I got advices from finnish fullrange builders and they think that there's too much damping in enclosure. Yesterday I take some off and sound became much better. Now there is no damping in side walls of upper box.
Now I can buy W4-655SA's, finnish retailer had those now. W4-655SA's Is that correct driver?
Now my Sticks have strong bass but it's a bit boomy. Midrange is little too low level and undetailed, like singer being behind curtain. Will bass be strong with W4-655SA even it has much lower Fs? But quality comes first 😎
I will use black screws and will do black fabric front grilles.
-Ali
I knew that driver is (slightly) different but time when I bought driver's there were no W4-655SA's in Finland. I thought that 657SC's would be enough close. I'm often too optimistic 🙄
I got advices from finnish fullrange builders and they think that there's too much damping in enclosure. Yesterday I take some off and sound became much better. Now there is no damping in side walls of upper box.
Now I can buy W4-655SA's, finnish retailer had those now. W4-655SA's Is that correct driver?
Now my Sticks have strong bass but it's a bit boomy. Midrange is little too low level and undetailed, like singer being behind curtain. Will bass be strong with W4-655SA even it has much lower Fs? But quality comes first 😎
I will use black screws and will do black fabric front grilles.
-Ali
Cyburgs said:
anyone know where I can get the drivers in USA? or is there an equal substitute?
gychang
W4-657SC: fs 46 Hz QTS 0,36 VAS 10 l
From Tang-Band's website:
W4-657SC
Free air resonance: 65 Hz
Qts: 0.36
Vas: 6.04 L
W4-655SA:
Free air resonance: 70 hz
Qts: 0.33
Vas: 5.09 L
From Tang-Band's website:
W4-657SC
Free air resonance: 65 Hz
Qts: 0.36
Vas: 6.04 L
W4-655SA:
Free air resonance: 70 hz
Qts: 0.33
Vas: 5.09 L
They are not very different by parameters? Same enclosure should fit for both drivers if we believe Tangband parameters. Ofcourse higher frequencies aren't same.
w4 655 substitute
I'm looking for a substitute driver available over here on the other side of the Atlantic too. This is the closest I can find:
www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-848
Specs are: fs 70hz, vas 4.86l, qts .37
Datasheet:
www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w4-1337sa.htm
The frequency response is different, so it would need a different notch filter. They also pricey - $56.40us (40.62 euros) - but they're the closest thing I can find in the U.S.
Are these a reasonable substitute?
Mike.
I'm looking for a substitute driver available over here on the other side of the Atlantic too. This is the closest I can find:
www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-848
Specs are: fs 70hz, vas 4.86l, qts .37
Datasheet:
www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w4-1337sa.htm
The frequency response is different, so it would need a different notch filter. They also pricey - $56.40us (40.62 euros) - but they're the closest thing I can find in the U.S.
Are these a reasonable substitute?
Mike.
chuck55 said:
Thanks for the point about the 1320s. If we set the equation up so that the FR is tamed by a theoretical and "perfect" digital EQ, would you estimate that the W4-1320 speaker and its parameters are suited to the Sticks?
Hello Cyburgs (and others 🙂)
Just wanted to let you know that I'm building a pair of the Sticks. They are my first speakers that I'm building and having a lot of fun already.
You can view my worklog here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246525
Cheers, thanks for making this possible.
Rik
Just wanted to let you know that I'm building a pair of the Sticks. They are my first speakers that I'm building and having a lot of fun already.
You can view my worklog here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246525
Cheers, thanks for making this possible.
Rik
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can't find the edit button so I'll assume there is none. If there is, please point it out to me and excuse my ignorance. 🙂
As they currently are. I'm keeping the filters external, which is what I'm working on now. Once those are done, it's painting time! Going with piano black with dark/bordeaux red sides.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As they currently are. I'm keeping the filters external, which is what I'm working on now. Once those are done, it's painting time! Going with piano black with dark/bordeaux red sides.
I was wondering is there any difference in sound of Sticks if I change the dimentions of the cabinets. I prefer slimer and deeper cabinets. The internal volume, port areas and lenght will be left the same.
The edit button is at the bottom of the window, right next to the the quote button. It is active for approx 1/2 hour after original post.
Hello,
I am currently in the process of sawing the wood for the Cyburgs Stick Hoch. I have a question about the external bass reflex port size. The guide states a 60mm BR pipe but it also says BR50. These two pipes differ in length. Which one should I take? Thanks!
I am currently in the process of sawing the wood for the Cyburgs Stick Hoch. I have a question about the external bass reflex port size. The guide states a 60mm BR pipe but it also says BR50. These two pipes differ in length. Which one should I take? Thanks!
Sticks
Hi
Berndt constructed those sticks by calulating and after by trial and error to get it right for THAT driver and THAT driver only.
So you CANNOT change the internal or external size - height - width - driver or ANYTHING without affecting the sound.
(You dont stick a truck engine i a porsche either)
Since it is a double bass system the mesurements inside have to be as exact as possible and if you want to use wood with a different thickness then the one he used you have to compensate all parts so that the inside stays the same .
I build those for my brother and i think they have a fantastic sound - warm soft - friendly to the ears - going down much further then you would expect from a little STICK like that 🙂 specialy when driven by my tube.
Keep it the way the man made em and you will have a pleasant surprise when you switch em on 🙂
greetings
wolf
Hi
Berndt constructed those sticks by calulating and after by trial and error to get it right for THAT driver and THAT driver only.
So you CANNOT change the internal or external size - height - width - driver or ANYTHING without affecting the sound.
(You dont stick a truck engine i a porsche either)
Since it is a double bass system the mesurements inside have to be as exact as possible and if you want to use wood with a different thickness then the one he used you have to compensate all parts so that the inside stays the same .
I build those for my brother and i think they have a fantastic sound - warm soft - friendly to the ears - going down much further then you would expect from a little STICK like that 🙂 specialy when driven by my tube.
Keep it the way the man made em and you will have a pleasant surprise when you switch em on 🙂
greetings
wolf
Hi Wolf. I do not know it that reply was adressed at my previous reply, but the 50mm and 60mm ports are both defined in the original drawings of the Stick Hoch.
Sticks
Alright, finished my sticks. I actually wrote a guide with pics that I took whilst building so even beginners like me (my first DIY speakers) would have the courage to build these.
Some pictures of the almost-finished sticks. You can see the glue coming through the veneer just under the element in one speaker, sanded a bit too much. But I can live with it, as long they are otherwise good.
Alright, finished my sticks. I actually wrote a guide with pics that I took whilst building so even beginners like me (my first DIY speakers) would have the courage to build these.
Some pictures of the almost-finished sticks. You can see the glue coming through the veneer just under the element in one speaker, sanded a bit too much. But I can live with it, as long they are otherwise good.