Well, Tempests and Maelstroms, but at the moment well out of my budget ( I'm out of work ) they are $360 and $620 respectively; also all of the Peerless XLS & XXLS but to be honest I'm not really interested in the Peerless as they are way to expensive, and when I've put them into box programs my existing Kicker seems to outperform them.
All of the car oriented car subs on the market at the moment seem like rubbish with specs that modell unrealistic boxes but not suitable for OB use, who relly needs a car sub that can take 3000 watts??
I do have a ouple of cheap MTX 15's in the shed but the specs are suspect, they do have very low Fs of 18 Hz but X-max is limited ( only 8mm ) fairly high Qts of 5.6 and from memory the Vas on those is about 300 litres, but to be sure I'd need to have them measured again.
There used to be a multitude of cheap large car subs on the market here but the fashion has changed, and what is avaliable now seems aimed at SPL competitions.
All of the car oriented car subs on the market at the moment seem like rubbish with specs that modell unrealistic boxes but not suitable for OB use, who relly needs a car sub that can take 3000 watts??
I do have a ouple of cheap MTX 15's in the shed but the specs are suspect, they do have very low Fs of 18 Hz but X-max is limited ( only 8mm ) fairly high Qts of 5.6 and from memory the Vas on those is about 300 litres, but to be sure I'd need to have them measured again.
There used to be a multitude of cheap large car subs on the market here but the fashion has changed, and what is avaliable now seems aimed at SPL competitions.
I suppose I should do something with these as they are just sitting gathering dust and no takers on ebay due to the now poor reputation of the people who did the recone.
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/manualsQuickInstall/subs/T4154A.pdf
except that the stiff competition surround they out on it has reduced resonance to 18 Hz and they have a secondary resonance at 40Hz, other T/S parameters haven't been measured.
I did try one in the same box as the Kicker but boomy and and peaky.
Power handling isn't all that good either when you get down low
http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/manualsQuickInstall/subs/T4154A.pdf
except that the stiff competition surround they out on it has reduced resonance to 18 Hz and they have a secondary resonance at 40Hz, other T/S parameters haven't been measured.
I did try one in the same box as the Kicker but boomy and and peaky.
Power handling isn't all that good either when you get down low
I have hooked up the MTX drivers to an old amp and I've been playing Enya "Watermark " for a couple of hours, what can I say, the drivers are rubbish, although the surround does seem to be softening up and Fs seems to be creeping up to stated spec.
Stated X-max is way optomistic, these things are bottoming with a lousy 30watts and SPL is way too low where I want/need it, and yes thet are playing "open air" in a milk crate stuffed with polyfill, I think the only option as I can't sell them ( even on E***) is a sonosub in each cornerbut my ceiling really is too low at 2600mm, my tube would only be about 2200 long
I thought this would be too short for a sonosub?? given that I am only interested in the bass below 40Hz.
Stated X-max is way optomistic, these things are bottoming with a lousy 30watts and SPL is way too low where I want/need it, and yes thet are playing "open air" in a milk crate stuffed with polyfill, I think the only option as I can't sell them ( even on E***) is a sonosub in each cornerbut my ceiling really is too low at 2600mm, my tube would only be about 2200 long
I thought this would be too short for a sonosub?? given that I am only interested in the bass below 40Hz.
OK after playing on repeat all nite the MTX drivers do seem to have softened up and running a sweep this morning Fs is now higher, at 25Hz so I'll use factory specs as the aproximation, I've never made a Ri-pole sub so space-wisen this seems like the only option for these drivers.
I'll use all 3 of the 15's, 3 seperate units, splitting the mono output from the XO to 3 amps, using the smaller amp for the Ri-poles and the bigger amp for the sealed box, and for a first experiment "N" framed Ri-poles.
Hopefully I'll have sufficient SPL below 40 to keep up with the woofers
I'll use all 3 of the 15's, 3 seperate units, splitting the mono output from the XO to 3 amps, using the smaller amp for the Ri-poles and the bigger amp for the sealed box, and for a first experiment "N" framed Ri-poles.
Hopefully I'll have sufficient SPL below 40 to keep up with the woofers
I need more help !!!
I have found a car sound site in the UK who still have stocks of an old "Kicker" sub woofer.
Expensive but I think perhaps worth looking at.
http://www.alphacaraudio.co.uk/View...VR-18-4 18" 1000watts Competition VR&Search=Y
But Kicker itself doesn't have the T/S parameters avaliable ( ??? ) and as yet no reply to my requests for information and I was hoping that someboby has them on file.
I did have this stuff but the ink has faded into unreadability due to poor storage conditions.
I seem to remember a huge Vas, Fs below 18Hz and a Qts of 0.47, but my memiry is a bit like my woodworking skills, not getting any better with age.
Also looking for second opinion on these below 40 Hz in a sealed box, or insanely big TEE-ELL
Cecile has approved the ripole and asked if I could make a pair with even deeper bass, of course dear I said, "how much bass do you want???"
" Lots " she said "I want too feel my body shake"
Her wish is my command
I have found a car sound site in the UK who still have stocks of an old "Kicker" sub woofer.
Expensive but I think perhaps worth looking at.
http://www.alphacaraudio.co.uk/View...VR-18-4 18" 1000watts Competition VR&Search=Y
But Kicker itself doesn't have the T/S parameters avaliable ( ??? ) and as yet no reply to my requests for information and I was hoping that someboby has them on file.
I did have this stuff but the ink has faded into unreadability due to poor storage conditions.
I seem to remember a huge Vas, Fs below 18Hz and a Qts of 0.47, but my memiry is a bit like my woodworking skills, not getting any better with age.
Also looking for second opinion on these below 40 Hz in a sealed box, or insanely big TEE-ELL
Cecile has approved the ripole and asked if I could make a pair with even deeper bass, of course dear I said, "how much bass do you want???"
" Lots " she said "I want too feel my body shake"
Her wish is my command
Hi GM; yes first visited their website, this driver isn't listed ( or it is and I couldn't find it )
I was impressed when I heard this unit at a car show yonks ago, thought I'd model it if I could find all the data.
I was impressed when I heard this unit at a car show yonks ago, thought I'd model it if I could find all the data.
Greets!
So neither of the CVR 18s documented is it? BTW, how long is a 'yonk'? I'm not familiar with this slang word.
GM
So neither of the CVR 18s documented is it? BTW, how long is a 'yonk'? I'm not familiar with this slang word.
GM
Aussie English slang for less than a lifetime but longer than a couple of years.
I may be looking in the wrong place.
I may be looking in the wrong place.
OK, then just so we're on the same 'page', the specs are in the manuals, i.e. support/technical support/manuals/subwoofer/compVR/English and more specifically the 2002, 2003 manuals for the 18s.
GM
GM
Ok I'll try again , but here is the email i received from Kicker
We only keep the T/S for up to 4 years after the speaker has been discontinued and that woofer was produced in 2000, sorry.
Anthony Alfonso
Technical Support Specialist
aalfonso@kicker.com
(405) 624 8510
Ext 7245
We only keep the T/S for up to 4 years after the speaker has been discontinued and that woofer was produced in 2000, sorry.
Anthony Alfonso
Technical Support Specialist
aalfonso@kicker.com
(405) 624 8510
Ext 7245
OK GM many thanks,
I've got them and playing around now.
I'm still waiting on a quote for shipping, no more surface mail from the UK apparently, just like the USA.
I may very well be better off with the Tempests but I won't know until I've put these thru the computer program and done a cost benefit comparison, shipping is the killer.
BTW have a very good and safe Christmas and ( fingers crossed ) a happy New Year
regards
Ted
I've got them and playing around now.
I'm still waiting on a quote for shipping, no more surface mail from the UK apparently, just like the USA.
I may very well be better off with the Tempests but I won't know until I've put these thru the computer program and done a cost benefit comparison, shipping is the killer.
BTW have a very good and safe Christmas and ( fingers crossed ) a happy New Year
regards
Ted
I have just been contacted by the seller of the CV 154 subwoofer driver.
High bidder has changed his/her mind and I may get them after all.
GM?? would you ( when it is convenient )) run up a simulation for me??
As we are moving house the new room for music and home-theatre will be bigger, long and skinny.
We are driving down today to look at the house and take some measurements, but I think the listening area is 3400 * 4700 with an adjacent area of the same size seperated by an arched wall with a 2400 gap in it, ceilings are 2400mm.
Older style house of timber construction and renting with a view to purchasing.
High bidder has changed his/her mind and I may get them after all.
GM?? would you ( when it is convenient )) run up a simulation for me??
As we are moving house the new room for music and home-theatre will be bigger, long and skinny.
We are driving down today to look at the house and take some measurements, but I think the listening area is 3400 * 4700 with an adjacent area of the same size seperated by an arched wall with a 2400 gap in it, ceilings are 2400mm.
Older style house of timber construction and renting with a view to purchasing.
Here's the ~Vb = Vas, Fp = Fs 23 Hz TQWT I did around the time you switched to Kicker:
L = 73.25"
SO = 320"^2
SL = 32"^2
zdriver = 8"
128"^2 Sd and 3 mH Le assumed with 0.25 lbs/ft^3 density down ~2/3 line shown. For lower tunings, just increase its length, with 103.25" yielding a ~16 Hz tuning (2nd sim), though Vb increases to 9+ ft^3.
GM
L = 73.25"
SO = 320"^2
SL = 32"^2
zdriver = 8"
128"^2 Sd and 3 mH Le assumed with 0.25 lbs/ft^3 density down ~2/3 line shown. For lower tunings, just increase its length, with 103.25" yielding a ~16 Hz tuning (2nd sim), though Vb increases to 9+ ft^3.
GM
Attachments
Wow, thanx GM
I'll still be using the Kicker, it's just that it was 6db down where I needed it to be so I anticipate using both subs XO at 40/45.
From your sim I think that will be good enough not to need any electronic manipulation until we move again to much bigger premises.
The smaller box will probably give us enough low bass assuming Infrasonic filter set at 15Hz, we don't want to shake the plaster off the walls.
regards
Ted And SWMBO ( Cecile)
I'll still be using the Kicker, it's just that it was 6db down where I needed it to be so I anticipate using both subs XO at 40/45.
From your sim I think that will be good enough not to need any electronic manipulation until we move again to much bigger premises.
The smaller box will probably give us enough low bass assuming Infrasonic filter set at 15Hz, we don't want to shake the plaster off the walls.
regards
Ted And SWMBO ( Cecile)
GM Good news, I have that Cerwin Vega;-0 Vega 154 on the way.
So after I move house I'm going to built a TL for it.
It will not be finished for a while but I'm looking forward to really deep bass, I'd appreciate some help with the folding of the line as I've lost that link again.
Bass rules
regards
Ted
So after I move house I'm going to built a TL for it.
It will not be finished for a while but I'm looking forward to really deep bass, I'd appreciate some help with the folding of the line as I've lost that link again.
Bass rules
regards
Ted
Driver from Eb8 has just arrived.
Sometimes you can be lucky, this is as described and in excellent condition, package also included 2 110mm vents adjustable from 155 -> 270mm.
I'll run some figures for a ported box using these vents in the sim.
Subjectively what is/ will be the difference between a ported box and the more probable TL as modeled by you ?? GM ??
Just using it open and sitting in a small plastic bin it is a quite different driver to the 12s I have in sealed boxes.
I have a new driver to play with< I'm happy> 😀
Sometimes you can be lucky, this is as described and in excellent condition, package also included 2 110mm vents adjustable from 155 -> 270mm.
I'll run some figures for a ported box using these vents in the sim.
Subjectively what is/ will be the difference between a ported box and the more probable TL as modeled by you ?? GM ??
Just using it open and sitting in a small plastic bin it is a quite different driver to the 12s I have in sealed boxes.
I have a new driver to play with< I'm happy> 😀
Well, I guess it depends on what you're comparing. A ~23 Hz golden ratio cab would require the two 11 cm vents to be 61 cm long, so would be ~4.88 ft^3 net plus driver and bracing while the TQWT would be ~6.4 ft^3 with a bigger (more efficient) vent area, ergo be better damped with a bit lower F3, though how audible these differences would be (if any) due to the XO's and room modes' impact on its performance is hard to say. Shrinking the TQWT's terminus down to match the two vents drops its Vb to ~5.89 ft^3 with the obvious slight loss in SPL.
Of course shrinking it down to ~4.88 ft^3 further reduces SPL down to the same as the GR BR, but is still much better damped to the point that if you damped the BR's vents enough to match, its < ~60 Hz BW sims audibly less. So I guess it boils down to how big can you tolerate since BIB rules with the TQWT more so than the BR since it's limited by how big it can be before audible peaking at Fb occurs, so in a typical room the GR BR can't be increased much without tuning it much lower or stuffing its vents, negating any SPL advantage over the TQWT until below its ~23 Hz tuning.
GM
Of course shrinking it down to ~4.88 ft^3 further reduces SPL down to the same as the GR BR, but is still much better damped to the point that if you damped the BR's vents enough to match, its < ~60 Hz BW sims audibly less. So I guess it boils down to how big can you tolerate since BIB rules with the TQWT more so than the BR since it's limited by how big it can be before audible peaking at Fb occurs, so in a typical room the GR BR can't be increased much without tuning it much lower or stuffing its vents, negating any SPL advantage over the TQWT until below its ~23 Hz tuning.
GM
I never have had an opportunity to listen to both BR & TL ( side by side same room at same time ) and BTST two different iterations using the same driver; while I have always liked the subjectively the deep bass of a TL I was fishing for a rating of one against the other.
I am building a TL for this driver, size as big as I can fit in the room.
I have read that there can be appreciable differences in perceived sound if the driver and vent are separated by any great distance, what thoughts?? although below 40Hz I can't imagine it having any great effect.
SQ wise the 15 is a different beast to the 12, although I;ve not yet determined why or how, but better very much better.
I am building a TL for this driver, size as big as I can fit in the room.
I have read that there can be appreciable differences in perceived sound if the driver and vent are separated by any great distance, what thoughts?? although below 40Hz I can't imagine it having any great effect.
SQ wise the 15 is a different beast to the 12, although I;ve not yet determined why or how, but better very much better.
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