Css FR125S Cabinet
hi, i am new to speaker building, i have previously built a pair for an A-Level project but they were rubbish.
i would love to make another pair but somthing that has the voice and imaging of my current Tannoy DC1000's.
so i have started looking at Full Range Drivers and the CSS FR125S in particular.
i would like to design an enclosure that is between 7 and 15 litres and is as efficient a possible and prefably rear ported. i am not too bothered about bass as i have a Tannoy TS8 sub.
my source is a NAD L53 amp/dvd/reciever and i maily listen to classic rock, easy listening, folk, blues.
can anyone help?
hi, i am new to speaker building, i have previously built a pair for an A-Level project but they were rubbish.
i would love to make another pair but somthing that has the voice and imaging of my current Tannoy DC1000's.
so i have started looking at Full Range Drivers and the CSS FR125S in particular.
i would like to design an enclosure that is between 7 and 15 litres and is as efficient a possible and prefably rear ported. i am not too bothered about bass as i have a Tannoy TS8 sub.
my source is a NAD L53 amp/dvd/reciever and i maily listen to classic rock, easy listening, folk, blues.
can anyone help?
just found the RAW 1F at http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/rawseries.html
thats the sort of thing im looking for or even a bit bigger.
thats the sort of thing im looking for or even a bit bigger.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
is there any reason to go for a sealed?
found these aswell-
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/FR125S-7L-vented-box.gif
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/KIT41CAB.pdf
found these aswell-
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/FR125S-7L-vented-box.gif
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/KIT41CAB.pdf
inrank, there are many threads here concerning that driver. When you search you'll see what I mean.
hi thanks, what is a "aperiodic" or "BR" cabinet?
my speakers will be either side of my tv and around 1ft from a rear wall.
my speakers will be either side of my tv and around 1ft from a rear wall.
inrank said:
Yes. Most people find the bass output of vented FR125S designs to be exaggerated. The simulations show a hump at ~100-150Hz. The FR125 has quite high Qts, so that would be one reason to avoid a vented enclosure. BR = bass reflex = vented.
Other reasons to go with sealed are the lower group delay (=better sound quality) and the higher power handling capacity at lower frequencies.
Aperiodic is basically something between sealed and vented designs. Here's an example:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/classics/dynaco.html
Read the other threads, there's a lot of info about these.
FWIW, Dave P10 & I have built / heard more than a few of single driver or simple 2-ways with various combos of WR & FR125's
By far our choice of most musical single driver* cabinet has been the mini-Onken. Depending on system/room matching, this designs allows for damping of the slot ports from slightly aperiodic to almost completely sealed.
Unless you're installing in an existing shelving or display unit, the floor space required for stands for such a mini sized box is no less than a full height floor stander.
*If you've the floor space behind the speaker, a 25liter sealed bipole using a pair of the WR125ST (16ohm) & fill-in tweeter of your choice sounds great - approx dimensions would be 7"x9.75"x36"
Look for a revised drawing of the "bipolar bipoles" on the Planet10 box drawings page.
By far our choice of most musical single driver* cabinet has been the mini-Onken. Depending on system/room matching, this designs allows for damping of the slot ports from slightly aperiodic to almost completely sealed.
Unless you're installing in an existing shelving or display unit, the floor space required for stands for such a mini sized box is no less than a full height floor stander.
*If you've the floor space behind the speaker, a 25liter sealed bipole using a pair of the WR125ST (16ohm) & fill-in tweeter of your choice sounds great - approx dimensions would be 7"x9.75"x36"
Look for a revised drawing of the "bipolar bipoles" on the Planet10 box drawings page.
hi, i have seen the Mini-Onken on here and on the web.
how is it easy to make?
ive seen that the bass might need to be toned down for some rooms, do you have any idea what the +-3dB point is?
i prefably want a bookshelf/standmount because i go back and forth between University so a floorstander would not be appropriate.
I currently have a NAD L53 Hifi, will this be ok for them? (2x50w)
how is it easy to make?
ive seen that the bass might need to be toned down for some rooms, do you have any idea what the +-3dB point is?
i prefably want a bookshelf/standmount because i go back and forth between University so a floorstander would not be appropriate.
I currently have a NAD L53 Hifi, will this be ok for them? (2x50w)
Well I would not recommend an Onken, it's harder to build and you can not adjust the tunning frequency (fb) of the vents once you have build it.
With a simple BR design, you will be able to "play" with the vent length to adjust the bass to your room and taste and it can be stuffed too from vented to aperiodic, depending on stuffing amount and density.
I don't know if that's easy to get in the US, but here you can buy telescopic BR ports, so adjusting them is fairly easy, even in the finished box.
IMO the problem with this driver is, that the T/S parameters published are not very reliable. I believe that's why most BR designs are not tunned correctly. If the cabinet is to small and/or the BR port is tunned to higher frequency than the optimum, you will get a hump and a muddy bass.
I'm having the FR125s in a 12 Liter BR, and after weeks of changing the port length and listening, I finally tuned it to ca. 40-45 Hz - from the official TSPs that's way to low and should not work at all, but it does! There is still a slight hump in the upper bass, but placed on stands, well off the wall in my 25 m2 (270 sq-feet) room, the bass and overall sound is pretty good, in a smaller room, closer to the rear wall the ports need some damping though and the bafflestep correction needs some adjustment - but that's normal too.
If I had to do it again, I'd build a even bigger cabinet - say like 16-18 Liters, as this lowers the Q of the system, and use a telescopic port for easy adjustment.
best, LC
With a simple BR design, you will be able to "play" with the vent length to adjust the bass to your room and taste and it can be stuffed too from vented to aperiodic, depending on stuffing amount and density.
I don't know if that's easy to get in the US, but here you can buy telescopic BR ports, so adjusting them is fairly easy, even in the finished box.
IMO the problem with this driver is, that the T/S parameters published are not very reliable. I believe that's why most BR designs are not tunned correctly. If the cabinet is to small and/or the BR port is tunned to higher frequency than the optimum, you will get a hump and a muddy bass.
I'm having the FR125s in a 12 Liter BR, and after weeks of changing the port length and listening, I finally tuned it to ca. 40-45 Hz - from the official TSPs that's way to low and should not work at all, but it does! There is still a slight hump in the upper bass, but placed on stands, well off the wall in my 25 m2 (270 sq-feet) room, the bass and overall sound is pretty good, in a smaller room, closer to the rear wall the ports need some damping though and the bafflestep correction needs some adjustment - but that's normal too.
If I had to do it again, I'd build a even bigger cabinet - say like 16-18 Liters, as this lowers the Q of the system, and use a telescopic port for easy adjustment.
best, LC
hi,
that sounds good, i think a 12L enclosure would be just about right for me, i think that a sealed or well stuffed ported would work well for me because i dont want the driver to try to reproduce deep bass as i have a sub, mabye tuned to around 55-60Hz.
i think that a simple box design with mabye a slot port would work well as it will add bracing but i do not know how to tune a slotted port.
like....
that sounds good, i think a 12L enclosure would be just about right for me, i think that a sealed or well stuffed ported would work well for me because i dont want the driver to try to reproduce deep bass as i have a sub, mabye tuned to around 55-60Hz.
i think that a simple box design with mabye a slot port would work well as it will add bracing but i do not know how to tune a slotted port.
like....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
or could i do a small transmission line like the PMC DB1, the resonat freq. is 67Hz, this results in a line length of 1.23m. from what i have read, this driver has a relatively high Qts which makes it ok for a TL design.
Purchase four 16-0hm 125s, wire two in parallel and install in an open baffle that allows the two drivers to reach a frequency that is preferrable to your subwoofer, placement, setup, etc.
Open wine, enjoy the best sound from the best-simple speaker ever, invite friends, allow them to be smug about it, tell them how much you REALLY paid for it...you get the idea.
Open wine, enjoy the best sound from the best-simple speaker ever, invite friends, allow them to be smug about it, tell them how much you REALLY paid for it...you get the idea.
yeah, i would love to but..
- cant find the 16Ohm 125's in the UK
-the 8Ohm 125's are £50 each as it is
(only looking for a relatively cheap but rewarding project)
- cant find the 16Ohm 125's in the UK
-the 8Ohm 125's are £50 each as it is
(only looking for a relatively cheap but rewarding project)
Hi,
50 GBP for a FR125S in UK? That's 72 Euro - in Germany you pay 65 Euro for a FR125S. One WR125ST (16 ohm) cost 50 Euro in Germany = 35 GBP. Keep in mind that the 16 ohm WR125ST is only a "widerange"!
Start looking around in Europe 😀
Regards
Thorsten
50 GBP for a FR125S in UK? That's 72 Euro - in Germany you pay 65 Euro for a FR125S. One WR125ST (16 ohm) cost 50 Euro in Germany = 35 GBP. Keep in mind that the 16 ohm WR125ST is only a "widerange"!
Start looking around in Europe 😀
Regards
Thorsten
i can not seem to find any websites that sell it in Europe.
will i need to use a tweeter if use two WR125ST?
will i need to use a tweeter if use two WR125ST?
Hi,
you got mail (about "where to buy").
The tweeter: I used a Dayton snap-in 20mm tweeter for my 2-way box with WR125S (8 Ohm). There is a design with two WR125ST and a Fostex tweeter here: ROSA Others can be found over the CSS page. You may start without a tweeter and let your ears decide......
Regards
Thorsten
you got mail (about "where to buy").
The tweeter: I used a Dayton snap-in 20mm tweeter for my 2-way box with WR125S (8 Ohm). There is a design with two WR125ST and a Fostex tweeter here: ROSA Others can be found over the CSS page. You may start without a tweeter and let your ears decide......
Regards
Thorsten
hi, thanks, i think i will just stick with one FR125s per cabinet so that i dont need a crossover and to keep things simple.
if i had two 16ohm WR125ST's i would need a tweeter so i would be veering away from my fullrange idea.
i am thinking from what i have seen that a sealed 9 litre cabinet will be best to integrate with my Sub and easiest to build.
if i had two 16ohm WR125ST's i would need a tweeter so i would be veering away from my fullrange idea.
i am thinking from what i have seen that a sealed 9 litre cabinet will be best to integrate with my Sub and easiest to build.
hi inrank,
below are the TSPs published by different diy magazines and the manufacturer. Even for a sealed cab you might want to run some simulations with the different values - I'd go for a larger cabinet (12 - 15L) to be on the save side - if you don't have a simulation software try this link:
speaker design calculator
Also, although you will not need a xover, you might want to think about a bafflestep compensation, not to complicated and explained here:
True Audio
CSS FR125s TSP's
CSS (manufacturer):
Fs: 67 Hz
Vas: 5.58L
Qms: 3.10
Qes: 0.68
Qts: 0.56
Klang +Ton (diy-magazine):
Fs: 46,95 Hz
Vas: 5,36 L
Qms: 4,03
Qes: 0,77
Qts: 0,65
HobbyHifi (diy-magazine):
Fs: 44 Hz
Vas: 8,7 L
Qms: 3,6
Qes: 0,66
Qts: 0,56
best, LC
below are the TSPs published by different diy magazines and the manufacturer. Even for a sealed cab you might want to run some simulations with the different values - I'd go for a larger cabinet (12 - 15L) to be on the save side - if you don't have a simulation software try this link:
speaker design calculator
Also, although you will not need a xover, you might want to think about a bafflestep compensation, not to complicated and explained here:
True Audio
CSS FR125s TSP's
CSS (manufacturer):
Fs: 67 Hz
Vas: 5.58L
Qms: 3.10
Qes: 0.68
Qts: 0.56
Klang +Ton (diy-magazine):
Fs: 46,95 Hz
Vas: 5,36 L
Qms: 4,03
Qes: 0,77
Qts: 0,65
HobbyHifi (diy-magazine):
Fs: 44 Hz
Vas: 8,7 L
Qms: 3,6
Qes: 0,66
Qts: 0,56
best, LC
so using that website...
whats Qtc (0.707)?
CSS (manufacturer):
Fs: 67 Hz
Vas: 5.58L
Qms: 3.10
Qes: 0.68
Qts: 0.56
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 85Hz and +-6dB is 62Hz
Klang +Ton (diy-magazine):
Fs: 46,95 Hz
Vas: 5,36 L
Qms: 4,03
Qes: 0,77
Qts: 0,65
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 52Hz and +-6dB is 42Hz
HobbyHifi (diy-magazine):
Fs: 44 Hz
Vas: 8,7 L
Qms: 3,6
Qes: 0,66
Qts: 0,56
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 55Hz and +-6dB is 44Hz
which is most reliable?
whats Qtc (0.707)?
CSS (manufacturer):
Fs: 67 Hz
Vas: 5.58L
Qms: 3.10
Qes: 0.68
Qts: 0.56
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 85Hz and +-6dB is 62Hz
Klang +Ton (diy-magazine):
Fs: 46,95 Hz
Vas: 5,36 L
Qms: 4,03
Qes: 0,77
Qts: 0,65
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 52Hz and +-6dB is 42Hz
HobbyHifi (diy-magazine):
Fs: 44 Hz
Vas: 8,7 L
Qms: 3,6
Qes: 0,66
Qts: 0,56
- - - - -In a 10L enclosure +-3dB is 55Hz and +-6dB is 44Hz
which is most reliable?
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