Raka, google a little and find some information on Technic's history with DD motors, their invention was innovative in the late 60s.
You should find plenty of information.
It's not a normal motor, and it's not that the motor centrally is connected to the spindle.
In fact, on my TT, part of the motor resides on the platter.
You should find plenty of information.
It's not a normal motor, and it's not that the motor centrally is connected to the spindle.
In fact, on my TT, part of the motor resides on the platter.
I hate to insist, but still can't understand why THE MOTOR used for DD system, has to be more quiet than just THE MOTOR used for BD systems. Electrically I can't find a reason, and mechanically, it has to have thrust bearings in the axial direction, while the BD systems "only" have to have radial thrust bearings.
Yes, I know the platter is integral part of the rotor, that what my poor english tried to explain
, but I'll search my answer, anyway.
Yes, I know the platter is integral part of the rotor, that what my poor english tried to explain
, but I'll search my answer, anyway.The majority of the people I talk about this doesn't even know how a good DD TT works.
I soon find out that those audioplile snobs I talked about are laughing of things they have no idea how it works.
But they defend the belt like there's no tomorrow, not caring and not kwnowing how a good DD TT works.
There's NO CONTACT between the platter and the TT other than the spindle.
A guy I know called me lunatic, this is not possible.😀
Magnetic fields make the motor/platter move.
Raka, read this and enjoy.
http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/why_eng.html
I soon find out that those audioplile snobs I talked about are laughing of things they have no idea how it works.
But they defend the belt like there's no tomorrow, not caring and not kwnowing how a good DD TT works.
There's NO CONTACT between the platter and the TT other than the spindle.
A guy I know called me lunatic, this is not possible.😀
Magnetic fields make the motor/platter move.
Raka, read this and enjoy.
http://de.geocities.com/bc1a69/why_eng.html
DD TT
Hello Raka,
The noise of the Direct Drive motor is at much lower frequencies and hence inaudible.......
Raka said:I hate to insist, but still can't understand why THE MOTOR used for DD system, has to be more quiet than just THE MOTOR used for BD systems. Electrically I can't find a reason, and mechanically, it has to have thrust bearings in the axial direction, while the BD systems "only" have to have radial thrust bearings.
Yes, I know the platter is integral part of the rotor, that what my poor english tried to explain
Hello Raka,
The noise of the Direct Drive motor is at much lower frequencies and hence inaudible.......
Re: DD TT
Hi Elso,
Do you have clocks for Direct-Drive turntables?😀
Elso Kwak said:
Hello Raka,
The noise of the Direct Drive motor is at much lower frequencies and hence inaudible.......
Hi Elso,
Do you have clocks for Direct-Drive turntables?😀
I have just bought a Pioneer DD turntable on ebay. Well , I asked some questions at the seller and he told me that while he would prefear the choice of a BD TT for some reasons (in the case it was the Pioneer PL 112D) , it is true that the DD TT are absolutely quiet in opposition to what some specialized reviews have told in the last 20 years. He told me also that his "personal TT" are 30+ years old and are all pulley-drived. In addiction it was told me that the 20+ years old Technics and Denon DDTT was beautiful machines.
I believe that if a decent DD TT sounds somewhat strange in comparison to a BD, the reason can be found in the quality of the crystal oscillator .Exactly like in CD players ... with the difference that a TT can be superior...
:😎
I believe that if a decent DD TT sounds somewhat strange in comparison to a BD, the reason can be found in the quality of the crystal oscillator .Exactly like in CD players ... with the difference that a TT can be superior...
:😎
Re: DD TT
Thanks for your reply. 🙂
Elso Kwak said:
Hello Raka,
The noise of the Direct Drive motor is at much lower frequencies and hence inaudible.......
Thanks for your reply. 🙂
Re: DD TT
I wish it were that simple, but of course it isn't. Both DD and BD are pretty awful compromises, each with their own specific set
of pros and cons.
But while both DD and BD can be made to perform very well, it is entirely outside of the possibilities of cottage industries to do so.
And yes, compared to Japan Inc. the British and USA high-end TT industry was cottage level in their early days (they were startups then), and still are cottage level today (as Japan Inc has withdrawn and the audience seemingly is happy to put up with simple designs that require little NRE costs). Which nicely explains the proliferation of BD. (*)
Or still in other words: literally anyone can build a high-end BD tuntable from scratch with relatively little financial investment. But try to build a clone of a big Micro ...
(* For those of you who find that shoking or blasphemous, note that I am closely affiliated with a renowned BD turntable manufacturer. Also note that I am known to have a realistic view of, er, reality. [**])
[** Well, sometimes, that is.]
Elso Kwak said:
The noise of the Direct Drive motor is at much lower frequencies and hence inaudible.......
I wish it were that simple, but of course it isn't. Both DD and BD are pretty awful compromises, each with their own specific set
of pros and cons.
But while both DD and BD can be made to perform very well, it is entirely outside of the possibilities of cottage industries to do so.
And yes, compared to Japan Inc. the British and USA high-end TT industry was cottage level in their early days (they were startups then), and still are cottage level today (as Japan Inc has withdrawn and the audience seemingly is happy to put up with simple designs that require little NRE costs). Which nicely explains the proliferation of BD. (*)
Or still in other words: literally anyone can build a high-end BD tuntable from scratch with relatively little financial investment. But try to build a clone of a big Micro ...
(* For those of you who find that shoking or blasphemous, note that I am closely affiliated with a renowned BD turntable manufacturer. Also note that I am known to have a realistic view of, er, reality. [**])
[** Well, sometimes, that is.]
Hmmmm......
DD's have never troubled the 3 point suspended subchassis
designers of this world, presumably because trying to compare
motor performance is pointless, as the belt drive motor is by
definition decoupled, a DD by definition is not.
Solid plinth belt drives I'm no fan of at all, might as well go DD.
I'm no fan of lightweight platter DD's (or DC servo belt drives)
that have aggressive loop gain in the speed control feedback,
gives good measured results on steady tones but poor speed
stability (dynamic wow) with LP's dynamic drag on the stylus.
Personally I'm a diehard 3 point suspension man, but having
said that I'm appalled at the current fad for DC motors, as far
as I can tell it was started by the last supplier of quality AC
synchronous motors withdrawing the product, forcing the
manafacturers to use DC motors.
A good solid (heavy) DD is a good investment, fit decent feet
and replace the usual japocrap tonearm with something decent,
makes a nice sounding turntable, but not IMO fantastic, that
is because motor performance is not the only criteria.
🙂 sreten.
DD's have never troubled the 3 point suspended subchassis
designers of this world, presumably because trying to compare
motor performance is pointless, as the belt drive motor is by
definition decoupled, a DD by definition is not.
Solid plinth belt drives I'm no fan of at all, might as well go DD.
I'm no fan of lightweight platter DD's (or DC servo belt drives)
that have aggressive loop gain in the speed control feedback,
gives good measured results on steady tones but poor speed
stability (dynamic wow) with LP's dynamic drag on the stylus.
Personally I'm a diehard 3 point suspension man, but having
said that I'm appalled at the current fad for DC motors, as far
as I can tell it was started by the last supplier of quality AC
synchronous motors withdrawing the product, forcing the
manafacturers to use DC motors.
A good solid (heavy) DD is a good investment, fit decent feet
and replace the usual japocrap tonearm with something decent,
makes a nice sounding turntable, but not IMO fantastic, that
is because motor performance is not the only criteria.
🙂 sreten.
Re: Re: DD TT
Do you read me?
The Technics SP10 already has a Colpitts oscillator. This is absolutely OK.
Stefanobilliani., A stubborn myth among audiophiles is that a beltdriven turntable has better sound than a direct dirive.
I made the experiment many years ago comparing a Thorens with my Dual 701. On some records I heard a difference using the same cartridge in favor of the Dual. This proved to be due to the better arm of the Dual. On that particular piano record was a non-flat portion ginving some surface flutter. The Dual with its decoupled counterweight handled is better.
I once asked my boss what he did prefer. He answered belt drive. I asked why, better sound?
No, he said, we can sell more belts. Has a good profit margin!
Calling Charlie-Alpha-Romeo-Lima-Oscar-Sierra-Foxtrot-Mike!carlosfm said:
Do you read me?
The Technics SP10 already has a Colpitts oscillator. This is absolutely OK.
Stefanobilliani., A stubborn myth among audiophiles is that a beltdriven turntable has better sound than a direct dirive.
I made the experiment many years ago comparing a Thorens with my Dual 701. On some records I heard a difference using the same cartridge in favor of the Dual. This proved to be due to the better arm of the Dual. On that particular piano record was a non-flat portion ginving some surface flutter. The Dual with its decoupled counterweight handled is better.
I once asked my boss what he did prefer. He answered belt drive. I asked why, better sound?
No, he said, we can sell more belts. Has a good profit margin!
Guys...
... read those links I posted.
Very entertaining.
Or print it all.
Very nice bathroom reading.😎
... read those links I posted.
Very entertaining.
Or print it all.
Very nice bathroom reading.😎
sreten said:
Well, there were a couple. But either stratospherically priced, or mere design exercises such as the Gale.
DD by definition is coupled, I agree. But you can't say that BD is by definition decoupled. In the case of an elastic belt you have two rotating inertias, one of them subject to a rippling torque, both inertias connected with a spring. In the case of a solid belt, you have unidirectional transfer of torque between the inertias. And in both cases you can have slip. Put all of this together in a shaker and see what comes out ...
Decoupled? Sadly not.
BTW 'brushless DC' is an oxymoron.
Re: Re: Re: DD TT
Most people still don't understand what's a good DD TT.
Talking about BD motor decoupling and comparing that to DD is curious to say the least.
I guess you have to own a DD TT to know.😉
Let's say DD is bad.
Maby that way I find a really cheap SP10, people may start trashing them.
I'll buy it immediately, make a good plynth and put a good arm on it.😎
Elso Kwak said:
Most people still don't understand what's a good DD TT.
Talking about BD motor decoupling and comparing that to DD is curious to say the least.
I guess you have to own a DD TT to know.😉
Let's say DD is bad.
Maby that way I find a really cheap SP10, people may start trashing them.
I'll buy it immediately, make a good plynth and put a good arm on it.😎
Re: Re: Re: Re: DD TT
In this case, let me know, I'm always ready to buy another tt 😉
carlosfm said:
In this case, let me know, I'm always ready to buy another tt 😉
Re: Re: Re: DD TT
Googling and looking at a pic of the 701 I reconized it.
My father had one of these for many years and sold it.
Elso Kwak said:
Googling and looking at a pic of the 701 I reconized it.
My father had one of these for many years and sold it.
At least he didn't wait until the current $30 going price 🙂
I honestly think a good 701 is probably the greatest bargain to be had in TTs. IMHO it kills all the cheap Thorens TTs and gets dangerously close to my Valhalla/Ittok Linn. Btw i run a Denon 103 on the Dual and have only done minimal wiring mods to the arm.
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