In a wire, Eddy currents (and eventually proxi effect) are surface related effects that restrict the main current flow to the surface of the wire. If the oxide layer is mediocre conductor (there was copper oxide rectifiers used in VOM's) and copper oxide isn't progressive as iron oxide does, once the oxide layer is stablished, it doesn't future upgrade. Thus current will tend to flow in the immediate vicinity of the interface between copper and oxide, but as copper has less DCR, the main flow will be in the copper side.
If your theory was correct, thus power lines with oxidized wires and heavy currents in them, must create still more distortion of the per se distorted AC wave. Similarly my ham radio aerials made of copper tubbing must be a big source of interferences to any kind and in fact I didn't received any alarm from neighbours. And they operate at 5W @150MHz where Eddy are much more pronounced than in audio freq.
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As yet said in many other thtreads, OFC isn't anything more than just marketing babble, only intended to part audiophools with their money. Electric cables of any kind are made from electrolytic copper, with a per se purity od 99.999 % and without any oxide.
Anyway, I've seen loudspeaker cables with a transparent isolation of obviously poor PVC that has degenerated and turned the copper into green copper chloride.
Best regards!
Anyway, I've seen loudspeaker cables with a transparent isolation of obviously poor PVC that has degenerated and turned the copper into green copper chloride.
Best regards!
Nobody said anything about a big source of distortion, nor said that the net effect is some kind of distortion. To the contrary, if there are many small and relatively independent distorters then the central limit theorem might suggest that some kind of low-level yet in some cases audible signal-correlated excess-noise could be the result.
Agreed. There are so many who are fixed in their ideas when there is so much to learn and so much we don't know.
Only recently I've been reading various sources on conducting and non-conducting materials and electromagnetic flow . Even leading scientists in the field can't agree on some areas. Some physical properties, like Poynting Vectors, have been around for over a century. Yet the thought that electromagnetic fields surrounding cable could carry much of the signal information as the cable itself is difficult for some to comprehend or accept. Even more that various types cable insulators, dielectric or otherwise, could have a profound effect on signal quality and transmission. There are also things going on in the quantum world which we are only just becoming aware of.
When I was studying physics at college I didn't give much thought to any of this. Now I'm approaching retirement it is piquing my interest.
Thus we are assuming that this distortion is low. How low compared to pre, amp, sources and recording ones? Are they distinguishable?
Didn't we learn in this forum that »quantum« uses to be just the keyword for those lads who claim something weird that they aren't able, or maybe willing, to explain, for not to say to prove, and which eventually turns out as just expectation bias?
Best regards and a happy new year without superstition!
Best regards and a happy new year without superstition!
The wire I use for internal speaker cabinet wiring is multi-strand THHN wire
The strands are thicker /fewer than multistrand machine tool wire or appliance cord wire. This makes it easier to route the wire inside the cabinet, and I can bend the wire into a shape and it will hold the shape. But it is not so stiff that it puts a lot of load on the speaker terminals (like solid core wire). The biggest negative sound impact of wire is a rattling wire inside a cabinet... not saying there are not other negative sonic impacts, but if you have a rattling wires any time 75-80 Hz signal content is present, nothing else really matters.
I find that very fine strand wire is hard to work with.
The strands are thicker /fewer than multistrand machine tool wire or appliance cord wire. This makes it easier to route the wire inside the cabinet, and I can bend the wire into a shape and it will hold the shape. But it is not so stiff that it puts a lot of load on the speaker terminals (like solid core wire). The biggest negative sound impact of wire is a rattling wire inside a cabinet... not saying there are not other negative sonic impacts, but if you have a rattling wires any time 75-80 Hz signal content is present, nothing else really matters.
I find that very fine strand wire is hard to work with.
Someone expects a real sound to be inaudible, so they hear exactly what they expect?
I was commenting about possible causes for an effect described by wesayso: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/crossover-wires.393887/post-7219111
He is not the first person to report such an audible difference. As usual with audio effects there likely some threshold of audibility where 50% of the population cannot hear the effect, and other 50% of the population can still hear it. For some reason most people (>50%) seem the think they are in the more sensitive 50%.
Similarly more than 50% of drivers rate themselves as better than average: https://www.psychologicalscience.or...ple-think-their-skills-are-above-average.html
Also if someone can't hear a real audible effect, they are likely to believe it can't be real: https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/naive-realism
I am clearly between those who can't listen any difference, I have't musical ear at all. My doubt is between who effectively say they listen differences: they really listen or they are "smoke sellers"* who are self-convinced they listen to such differences.
* Smoke selles is used in my town in a form equivalent to "snake oil" in other populations.
* Smoke selles is used in my town in a form equivalent to "snake oil" in other populations.
I gave up arguing what I hear or don’t hear a long time ago but can’t help but wonder how many of the “50%” that do hear differences that are supposedly inaudible listen to their systems louder than average? Example being many of the differences i find are only audible at extreme levels (95-100db @ LP) many people here only listen to what i would call background music 80-85db +/- @ LP due to fear of hearing damage. I don’t condone listening loudly but I do and wonder how much this has to do with the gap?
You don't need to listen to music loudly to hear differences. You do however need a quiet outside, i.e. very little traffic etc, good room acoustics, & train your ears & know what to listen for.
I only have my modified Monitor Audio BX2 speakers powered about 10% output from the Denon class D 60w amp.....sometimes 20% output on quieter recordings...But then again the room is under 4m x 4m, carpeted & good acoustics i.e. fairly dead, not much reflection etc..
I have good hearing, sensitive, can't stand loud volumes, & used to play woodwind, & was brought up from day one on opera & classical...🤐.....
Seems to vary somewhat from person to person, but IME for most things a lower volume level is preferable for hearing small differences. Higher volume levels can become deafening. One exception might be when listening for depth, which may require noticing low level room decay sounds. In that case what is being listened for is still a low volume level, but volume peaks can be much higher.
Thing is that the ear/brain system is not strongly LTI (linear, time-invariant). Thus someone can't just apply Fourier and expect it to hold under all conditions. IMHO adding up dB numbers for HD spectral components (as seen on an FFT) and trying to figure out when the low level harmonics are 'above audibility' doesn't work for complex signals like music. It may work for some simple test signal cases though.
I suppose it matters how you ‘tune’ your setup also, my main system is always tuned for max output for a live music type sound and it suffers for it under 90db @ LP, secondary system is tuned for more bass and treble and sounds bloated/harsh if turned up to reference levels. I’ve found trying to EQ for volume not as effective as two different systems tuned for it’s specific use.
When I say ‘tuned‘ i mean through component matching, signal levels, speaker crossover and components……..wiring 🤐
edit…… Mark, were you a farmer in another life? Its 4:30am out there in Cali !?
When I say ‘tuned‘ i mean through component matching, signal levels, speaker crossover and components……..wiring 🤐
edit…… Mark, were you a farmer in another life? Its 4:30am out there in Cali !?
At 19:20 in my friend, the big guy with the white hair, asks David why can't we measure what we hear in cables? I thought that David gave a good, thinking-out-of- the- box answer. We have been looking in the wrong place. I feel that if David could display measurements he would as a lot of people would like to see it and he could sell more products to the buyers that want to see measurements.
But you can see from the comments the deniers will put you down no matter what. They are so convinced there are no differences they will never hear them even if they are obvious. That's how expectation bias works.
It's a topic there is little point in pursuing. Best solution is to get away from it all and enjoy listening to music instead because, after all, what other people think is irrelevant 😉
It's a topic there is little point in pursuing. Best solution is to get away from it all and enjoy listening to music instead because, after all, what other people think is irrelevant 😉
Never noticed the sound of wire to be proportional to length. Even very short pieces of wire make a difference. My speakers and crossovers are wired with different gauges of solid core OCC Neotech as i happen to like it and it's cheap. No doubt others will like a different wire.