Lojzek/Shane,
I wonder how much power the D260 can actually handle as I monitor it power dissipation when altering xover component values? For example after finally modeling my own current xover design, I input 100W from amp and see the tweeter is dealing with 12 watts max. When I model the Sirius first order crossover, tweeter has to put up with 33 watts when amp gives it 100W... The Sirius design has spectacular impedance lines (see attached) that look perfect stable from +200Hz on up (for what its worth)...! The frequency response curve is dynamite too even though the tweeter has to handle more energy!! This is all upon your trace files of teh two Dyn drivers that I would still like to learn how to accomplish. Still keeping in mind Shane's comments about the D260 sibilance cure as per their Sirius design (more comments Shane?)
Thanks guys,
Gordon
I wonder how much power the D260 can actually handle as I monitor it power dissipation when altering xover component values? For example after finally modeling my own current xover design, I input 100W from amp and see the tweeter is dealing with 12 watts max. When I model the Sirius first order crossover, tweeter has to put up with 33 watts when amp gives it 100W... The Sirius design has spectacular impedance lines (see attached) that look perfect stable from +200Hz on up (for what its worth)...! The frequency response curve is dynamite too even though the tweeter has to handle more energy!! This is all upon your trace files of teh two Dyn drivers that I would still like to learn how to accomplish. Still keeping in mind Shane's comments about the D260 sibilance cure as per their Sirius design (more comments Shane?)
Thanks guys,
Gordon
Attachments
Don't mention it Gordon. I try to keep in mind that this is all playing games and may not be exactly the real thing bit it's miles better than using online simple XO calculators. I do all kinds of hokus pokus with the frd and zma files in other Excel spreadsheets by Jeff Bagby which gives you freedom to equalize the manufacturer graphs so it looks as real as possible. Surely a great learning tool. Ultimately one's own measurements can't be topped assuming these are without flaws. Have fun!
Lojzek/Shane,
This is the crossover I propose to use now for my Dynaudio 17W75XL-8 & D260 combo. I hope any sibilance issues will cured as per Shane's experience. The configuration is altered only to 1: accommodate my version of 17W75-8 and 2a: provide more padding to the tweet as per my personal taste with experience from my first attempt of x-over and 2b: invert the tweeter phase. See attached configuration showing responses with tweet out of phase (great response curve); in phase (gapping whole in response at crossover region). Also attached is Dynaudio recommendation x-over for Sirius kit (as Shane used) that shows tweet in phase? - could they be wrong or is it something only theoretical and is a mute point??
Thanks guys,
Gordon
This is the crossover I propose to use now for my Dynaudio 17W75XL-8 & D260 combo. I hope any sibilance issues will cured as per Shane's experience. The configuration is altered only to 1: accommodate my version of 17W75-8 and 2a: provide more padding to the tweet as per my personal taste with experience from my first attempt of x-over and 2b: invert the tweeter phase. See attached configuration showing responses with tweet out of phase (great response curve); in phase (gapping whole in response at crossover region). Also attached is Dynaudio recommendation x-over for Sirius kit (as Shane used) that shows tweet in phase? - could they be wrong or is it something only theoretical and is a mute point??
Thanks guys,
Gordon
Attachments
The "issue" with polarity is not really something to worry about. According to my simulation your phase reversal would be needed for now the tweeter isn't 3rd order anymore and that needs to be compensated which you did by wiring it out of phase. You will easily spot, while listening to finished speakers, that the right version plays uniformly from the point between the drivers and the wrong one as if the drivers went their own separate ways.
Those RC and RLC conjugate impedance filters are good for tube amps that have considerable output impedance, for the constant voltage amps like most solid state are it's a waste of parts and does nothing to SPL.
Cheers!
Those RC and RLC conjugate impedance filters are good for tube amps that have considerable output impedance, for the constant voltage amps like most solid state are it's a waste of parts and does nothing to SPL.
Cheers!
When I talked to Solen a month ago they described the silvers as more "detailed sounding" while the film/foils were more "smoother" I elect to try the "smoother" film/foils as I'm sensitive to bright/over pronounced highs albeit perhaps more detailed. They even said a combination of both silvers and film/foils [@50/50% capacitance value/each] were a common combination to get the best of both worlds(does make it much costly however to have both...!)
Thanks for your input again Shane,
Gordon
Thanks for your input again Shane,
Gordon
Yes of course, it is a famous tweeter! Curious about the D280 and cannot find a spec sheet on it anywhere. Updated version of D280 I guess... Maybe slightly improved? How much better I have no idea. Dynaudio tweeters in any event are some of the finest out there since original D28...
Cheers,
G.
Cheers,
G.
Final X-over for Dynaudio 17W75XL-08 & D260
Attached is ZIP of final crossover layout, electrical curves and final response plot featuring Dynaudio 17W75XL-08 and Esotec D260.
All capacitors are Solen standard polypropylenes except tweeter (series high pass) cap which is Mundorf M-Cap Supreme. Coils are Solen Air cores with one of woofer (series low pass) is Solen hepta-litz. Had tried Solen Film/Foil cap for tweet (made by SRC-France) but like German made Mundorf Supreme better. Have 50+ hours on all crossover parts and several hundred hours on speaker drivers now. Settled on value of tweeter attenuation putting it exactly where I want it to be. Overall the sound is superb!! Mundorfs made a definite difference and I believe Hepta litz made a subtle difference. The sound is very detailed and sweet. Enclosure used is well damped and braced. Took several iterations of crossover over the last few months including change of component types to nail x-over down. Had switched to all good Solen polyprop's for shunt capacitors in Zobel and other impedance correction sections compared to cheaper Polystyrenes. Have invested about $1,400USD in the entire project including drivers, enclosures and crossovers but I now I have speakers that I believe would surpass the Dynaudio EMIT series at least...!
I'm very pleased and say thanks for the input I have received including learning to use X-SIM software (thanks Lojzek) and Shane. Wish we could share the results of my toils in the form of auditioning my home brew Dyn's yet we are far apart.
P.S. Happy 150th birthday to my homeland of Canada this July 1, 2017!
Cheers amigos!,
Gordon
Attached is ZIP of final crossover layout, electrical curves and final response plot featuring Dynaudio 17W75XL-08 and Esotec D260.
All capacitors are Solen standard polypropylenes except tweeter (series high pass) cap which is Mundorf M-Cap Supreme. Coils are Solen Air cores with one of woofer (series low pass) is Solen hepta-litz. Had tried Solen Film/Foil cap for tweet (made by SRC-France) but like German made Mundorf Supreme better. Have 50+ hours on all crossover parts and several hundred hours on speaker drivers now. Settled on value of tweeter attenuation putting it exactly where I want it to be. Overall the sound is superb!! Mundorfs made a definite difference and I believe Hepta litz made a subtle difference. The sound is very detailed and sweet. Enclosure used is well damped and braced. Took several iterations of crossover over the last few months including change of component types to nail x-over down. Had switched to all good Solen polyprop's for shunt capacitors in Zobel and other impedance correction sections compared to cheaper Polystyrenes. Have invested about $1,400USD in the entire project including drivers, enclosures and crossovers but I now I have speakers that I believe would surpass the Dynaudio EMIT series at least...!
I'm very pleased and say thanks for the input I have received including learning to use X-SIM software (thanks Lojzek) and Shane. Wish we could share the results of my toils in the form of auditioning my home brew Dyn's yet we are far apart.
P.S. Happy 150th birthday to my homeland of Canada this July 1, 2017!
Cheers amigos!,
Gordon
Apologies as last ZIP was previous version of crossover. Attached is the final configuration I discussed. Forgot to mention I also applied a 0.01uF Vishay Roederstein Poly bypass cap paralleled with Mundorf tweeter cap as there was mention of this trick to further enhance sound quality of M-Cap supreme...
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