We´ll never be able to explain why and how we hear what the newest and cleverest gimmicks don´t detect.I need no other than my ears
It will probably take about 5 years of practice/training with measurements as well, to learn properly
Im not against measurements at all, on the contrary
All I say is that to rely on "hearing" is way better than to rely on calculations and theory solely
"Hearing" is what comes next to measurements
You know, let 10 people do each their own individual measurements, and you will get 10 different results too
What I oppose against is whenever measurements are used you rely entirely on what you see on the screen
You will always reference to your measureing
Measurements may be wrong too you know
If your ears say NO, but measurements YES, you might just blame the wooden box, a wire, or the like
Thats how it is
In many other matters as well
Its a bit like ultimate marcial art, fighting blindfolded
A myth ofcourse, but the point is well know
You know, "luke close computer, use the force...?
In essense its just about mental training
But like with many other things, its dangerous if you cant handle it
Dangerous to health, ears and mind
It will probably take about 5 years of practice/training with measurements as well, to learn properly
Im not against measurements at all, on the contrary
All I say is that to rely on "hearing" is way better than to rely on calculations and theory solely
"Hearing" is what comes next to measurements
You know, let 10 people do each their own individual measurements, and you will get 10 different results too
What I oppose against is whenever measurements are used you rely entirely on what you see on the screen
You will always reference to your measureing
Measurements may be wrong too you know
If your ears say NO, but measurements YES, you might just blame the wooden box, a wire, or the like
Thats how it is
In many other matters as well
Its a bit like ultimate marcial art, fighting blindfolded
A myth ofcourse, but the point is well know
You know, "luke close computer, use the force...?
In essense its just about mental training
But like with many other things, its dangerous if you cant handle it
Dangerous to health, ears and mind
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Dielectric Absorption
George,
electrolytic caps have significant dielectric absorption - which in simple audio effect results in part of the signal being stored and released over a period of time, including significantly later than the primary portion of the signal through the cap.
This smears the sound and changes its timbre.
This occurs in both Series circuits and in Parallel circuits such as Zobels,
and is audible in zobels, though for zobels to bass drivers the audible effect is a bit less noticeable than it is when to midrange and treble drivers.
When a non-electro of significant less dielectric absorption is connected in parallel with the electro the non-electro simply passes its proportional share of the signal - in proportion to the ratio of the Impedances of the electro versus the non-electro in each specific relevant frequency band - and does not in any way reduce the dielectric absorption of the electro.
Some listeners like the audio effect produced by a non-electro of small capacitance in parallel with an electro of large capacitance - and they are quite entitled to - however it is a sound effect and not accurate transmission of the signal's waveform.
At least one listener I know of incrementally increased the value of the parallel non-electro - in this case using MKP caps - until he got a sound he liked, BUT that was with a specific bass driver in a 3-way loudspeaker and thus may simply complement the specific audio character of that particular model bass driver -{no longer manufactured}- and not necessarily any other bass driver.
MKT caps have audibly noticeably more dielectric absorption than MKP caps,
though not anywhere near as noticeable as from most electro caps.
Vishay MKTs will be better assembled than some other brands of MKP caps, thus may sound better than some MKPs which are microphonic as result of mediocre assembley, but a well made MKP will allow pass the music signal more cleanly than an MKT.
For low price MKPs you an obtain Bennic cheaply from Parts Express, or their selected own branded Bennics with the Dayton brand on at slightly higher price, and the Daytons are within +/- 2% tolerance and available in a wide range of values.
Better, for little higher price are PX Series ClarityCap from Madisound, also in a wide range of values thus mostly you will not need to connect any in parallel to obtain close enough to the capacitances you need.
For very large capacitances in the bass circuit connect equal value cheapest Bennics in parallel, and use ClarityCap for mids and treble, unless you want to experiment with the sound effects created by paralleling unequal caps and electros.
George,
electrolytic caps have significant dielectric absorption - which in simple audio effect results in part of the signal being stored and released over a period of time, including significantly later than the primary portion of the signal through the cap.
This smears the sound and changes its timbre.
This occurs in both Series circuits and in Parallel circuits such as Zobels,
and is audible in zobels, though for zobels to bass drivers the audible effect is a bit less noticeable than it is when to midrange and treble drivers.
When a non-electro of significant less dielectric absorption is connected in parallel with the electro the non-electro simply passes its proportional share of the signal - in proportion to the ratio of the Impedances of the electro versus the non-electro in each specific relevant frequency band - and does not in any way reduce the dielectric absorption of the electro.
Some listeners like the audio effect produced by a non-electro of small capacitance in parallel with an electro of large capacitance - and they are quite entitled to - however it is a sound effect and not accurate transmission of the signal's waveform.
At least one listener I know of incrementally increased the value of the parallel non-electro - in this case using MKP caps - until he got a sound he liked, BUT that was with a specific bass driver in a 3-way loudspeaker and thus may simply complement the specific audio character of that particular model bass driver -{no longer manufactured}- and not necessarily any other bass driver.
MKT caps have audibly noticeably more dielectric absorption than MKP caps,
though not anywhere near as noticeable as from most electro caps.
Vishay MKTs will be better assembled than some other brands of MKP caps, thus may sound better than some MKPs which are microphonic as result of mediocre assembley, but a well made MKP will allow pass the music signal more cleanly than an MKT.
For low price MKPs you an obtain Bennic cheaply from Parts Express, or their selected own branded Bennics with the Dayton brand on at slightly higher price, and the Daytons are within +/- 2% tolerance and available in a wide range of values.
Better, for little higher price are PX Series ClarityCap from Madisound, also in a wide range of values thus mostly you will not need to connect any in parallel to obtain close enough to the capacitances you need.
For very large capacitances in the bass circuit connect equal value cheapest Bennics in parallel, and use ClarityCap for mids and treble, unless you want to experiment with the sound effects created by paralleling unequal caps and electros.
misunderstood humour ? - and Brands of capacitors.
Hah Pit,
given this Post, it seems I may have misunderstood your earlier Post, and if so I apologise for the initial part of my then reply to you.
I very much agree with what you have posted this time !
Given where you are located I think you will be able to obtain Vishay/ Roedestein specifications and those from Wima, who perhaps publish Pulse Rise Times, as also may EuroFarad.
Only problem with Vishay and Wima is not a wide range of values.
I don't know the range EuroFarad may offer.
I haven't seen any Specifications for Monacor's caps, which I think are made for them by one of the major Euopean manufacturers - perhaps in the Roedestein or Evox/Rifa factory - do you know ?
and do you have a Link for a site with the Specifications ?
The commonly mentioned brands that audiophiles discuss the relative sonic merits of all seem to have reasonable pulse rise times.
The relatively low price, Danish brand "Frequence PCA" caps are MKPs and low dissipation factor, but no pulse rise times published.
Given their physical appearance they may be Asian manufactured, perhaps by Bennic who will brand for any large quantity customer, or perhaps they are made in an ex-Soviet bloc, low labour costs' Nation.
Hah Pit,
given this Post, it seems I may have misunderstood your earlier Post, and if so I apologise for the initial part of my then reply to you.
I very much agree with what you have posted this time !
Given where you are located I think you will be able to obtain Vishay/ Roedestein specifications and those from Wima, who perhaps publish Pulse Rise Times, as also may EuroFarad.
Only problem with Vishay and Wima is not a wide range of values.
I don't know the range EuroFarad may offer.
I haven't seen any Specifications for Monacor's caps, which I think are made for them by one of the major Euopean manufacturers - perhaps in the Roedestein or Evox/Rifa factory - do you know ?
and do you have a Link for a site with the Specifications ?
The commonly mentioned brands that audiophiles discuss the relative sonic merits of all seem to have reasonable pulse rise times.
The relatively low price, Danish brand "Frequence PCA" caps are MKPs and low dissipation factor, but no pulse rise times published.
Given their physical appearance they may be Asian manufactured, perhaps by Bennic who will brand for any large quantity customer, or perhaps they are made in an ex-Soviet bloc, low labour costs' Nation.
I normally do computer simulation using single capacitor of standard value for the tweeter (i.e. no parallel capacitors) and then use resistors and inductor, the later of which is usually of non-standard value, to come up with the desired response. I would then unwind the inductor to the required value. In this way, I can avoid parallelling capacitors.
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