Has anyone here built / heard the Critical Q Sub?
Same question for the Rythmik Audio Servo Subs.
I am between a pair of these and a pair of Rythmik Audio Servo Subs.
Not much posted about either, the usual technical dissection but ....
Andrew
Same question for the Rythmik Audio Servo Subs.
I am between a pair of these and a pair of Rythmik Audio Servo Subs.
Not much posted about either, the usual technical dissection but ....
Andrew
I've built DirectServo. Nice sub. Really nice🙂 Made it for music but use also with movies. Wrote something about it some time ago:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29109&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49997&highlight=
No problems. Tight and accurate with good extension. Some might describe it as being a bit too 'dry'.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29109&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49997&highlight=
No problems. Tight and accurate with good extension. Some might describe it as being a bit too 'dry'.
Thanks Mobster,
I called Brian Ding who is Rythmik Audio and spoke with him for a little while. Seems like a nice enough guy, told him what I was after and asked for opinions / suggestions. I am actually leaning towards the Servo Subs. I plan on building a pair, one each in an OB with a Visaton B200 as the fullrange driver.
Andrew
I called Brian Ding who is Rythmik Audio and spoke with him for a little while. Seems like a nice enough guy, told him what I was after and asked for opinions / suggestions. I am actually leaning towards the Servo Subs. I plan on building a pair, one each in an OB with a Visaton B200 as the fullrange driver.
Andrew
Brians service was first rate! I was also thinkig dual subs some time ago. But after some consideration decided against it - at least for now🙂 Maby some day I'll have an urge to build to two enclosures - speaker stands - for my small 2-way Dynaudios...
Currently my X-over is at 40hz and that one sub integrates with my mains quite nicely. After my next purchase I'll have some flexibility and will be able to keep X-over with music at 40hz PLUS set it with movies to 80hz.
Currently my X-over is at 40hz and that one sub integrates with my mains quite nicely. After my next purchase I'll have some flexibility and will be able to keep X-over with music at 40hz PLUS set it with movies to 80hz.
Those small 2 way Dynaudio's must go down pretty low if you cross over at 40hz. I am thinking of doing the crossover somewhere around 80 hz (24db) for my application.
I am strictly music, no movies for my application. I am envisioning OB's like the Visaton no box or diy systems Quasar only with the sealed sub for the bottom instead of ob bass.
Andrew
I am strictly music, no movies for my application. I am envisioning OB's like the Visaton no box or diy systems Quasar only with the sealed sub for the bottom instead of ob bass.
Andrew
I built the rythmik servo kit, in a ~2 cu ft sealed box. If music is your only concern, this sub sounds better than anything I've heard to this point on music, and damn good at HT as well. I can't see any advantages for the 'critical q' sub over the servo, its just a sealed box with q=.5. The talk of equalling 'servo performance' in the documentation is unfounded, IMHO, and the various damping and extension settings on the servosub make it much more flexible to boot.
I keep it set at 14hz, high damping (q=.5) for music and 'light' movies. For action flicks I switch to low or medium damping and 20hz or 28hz extension to avoid bottoming (its still a single 12" driver!). I have crossed it at 50hz, 80hz, and 120 hz, and the sound gets better as I go up (in part because my satellites use 4.5" woofers). At 120hz the sub is more easily localized, so currently I'm crossing at 80hz but I will soon be running a stereo pair as speaker stands, and then I will go with 120hz - my satellites sound much better relieved of the low bass duty, and the servosub handles the 60-120hz range as well or better than they do anyway.
In short, if these are you 2 options, I see no advantage for the 'critical q' for movies or music. If movies were your main concern, you could build a more powerful sub for the same money (though the rythmik is no slouch in this department), but for music I don't beleive you could better it near its cost.
I keep it set at 14hz, high damping (q=.5) for music and 'light' movies. For action flicks I switch to low or medium damping and 20hz or 28hz extension to avoid bottoming (its still a single 12" driver!). I have crossed it at 50hz, 80hz, and 120 hz, and the sound gets better as I go up (in part because my satellites use 4.5" woofers). At 120hz the sub is more easily localized, so currently I'm crossing at 80hz but I will soon be running a stereo pair as speaker stands, and then I will go with 120hz - my satellites sound much better relieved of the low bass duty, and the servosub handles the 60-120hz range as well or better than they do anyway.
In short, if these are you 2 options, I see no advantage for the 'critical q' for movies or music. If movies were your main concern, you could build a more powerful sub for the same money (though the rythmik is no slouch in this department), but for music I don't beleive you could better it near its cost.
Thanks guys,
I called Brian again this afternoon and I will be ordering them (servo subs) next week. I may be in the U.S next week so shipping will be cheaper if I get them there and carry back with me on the ironbird, otherwise its the P.O. I guess, those things are heavy!
I was reading his site some more earlier today, makes some interesting reading to me, explaining different approaches and the choices he made and why.
Andrew
I called Brian again this afternoon and I will be ordering them (servo subs) next week. I may be in the U.S next week so shipping will be cheaper if I get them there and carry back with me on the ironbird, otherwise its the P.O. I guess, those things are heavy!
I was reading his site some more earlier today, makes some interesting reading to me, explaining different approaches and the choices he made and why.
Andrew
tkc, I have, but only to get the best integration with the satellites, I wasnt paying attention to how low it was going, just the behaviour through the crossover region. I'll try to get some more measurements done sometime soon.
It should be noted though that through the use of the extension and damping settings on the plate amp, you sort of tailor your own frequency response. This comes in very handy IMO. At my 'normal' setting, (14hz, high damping), it subjectively goes quite a bit deeper than my Adire Rava, but also bottoms sooner. If I set it to 28hz, med damping, it behaves almost identically to my Rava in response and excursion.
Again, this is not a monster output sub (though keeping up with a MkIV shiva is pretty damn good output for a 12" driver!), it is all about finesse and articulation, and in that area it handily outshines the Rava, which is no slouch in that department at all.
It should be noted though that through the use of the extension and damping settings on the plate amp, you sort of tailor your own frequency response. This comes in very handy IMO. At my 'normal' setting, (14hz, high damping), it subjectively goes quite a bit deeper than my Adire Rava, but also bottoms sooner. If I set it to 28hz, med damping, it behaves almost identically to my Rava in response and excursion.
Again, this is not a monster output sub (though keeping up with a MkIV shiva is pretty damn good output for a 12" driver!), it is all about finesse and articulation, and in that area it handily outshines the Rava, which is no slouch in that department at all.
Those Dynaudios are normal 2-ways with usable bass to 40hz region (in room). That 40hz X-over is used to filter out bass below tuning frequency. With this kind of adjustements speakers work almost as 'large' speakers and subwoofer extends bass to the 15-20hz area. The audible difference between 'large' setting and 40hz setting is extremely minimal (without subwoofer). As a result of this speaker cone movement and distortion is reduced when trying to output low bass signals. I know this is a bit unorthodox but it works great with music.
Andrew,
I was wondering how your B200 openbaffle system is coming along. I'm especially interested in your experience with the B200, and how it compares to the fostex drivers you have used in the pass. (what are the plus point and what are the negative points.
The reason I ask is that I'm planning to build an open baffle with the supravox 285 driver together with a fostex 167E driver. And I'm thinking of using the B200 instead of the fostex
Jacob
I was wondering how your B200 openbaffle system is coming along. I'm especially interested in your experience with the B200, and how it compares to the fostex drivers you have used in the pass. (what are the plus point and what are the negative points.
The reason I ask is that I'm planning to build an open baffle with the supravox 285 driver together with a fostex 167E driver. And I'm thinking of using the B200 instead of the fostex
Jacob
"
Forget the "Critical Q" subwoofer. The rationale for the design is based on serious misunderstandings.
Check out the Thor by Linkwitz. It uses the same driver. Linkwitz knows what he's doing. (And how.)
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-design.htm
Forget the "Critical Q" subwoofer. The rationale for the design is based on serious misunderstandings.
Check out the Thor by Linkwitz. It uses the same driver. Linkwitz knows what he's doing. (And how.)
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-design.htm
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi Jacob,
There's a pic. The sub is great. I have not been listening a lot of late because I have been too busy doing other things but hopefully near the end of the month things will have calmed down.
Its in a sealed ~ 2.0 Cu Ft enclosure. Its very tuneful and plays quite high for being a sub.
The B200 is powered by a aircore Charlize and both the B200 and Charlize are the next best thing since sliced bread!
I finally got around to finishing the trim on the baffles today on the bottom and also added castors.
Andrew
Andrew,
you are very positive about the B200, how does it compare to the fostexes you have used in the past? (clarity, detail, etc etc) I´m curious about that.
Cheers and good luck with your project,
Jacob
you are very positive about the B200, how does it compare to the fostexes you have used in the past? (clarity, detail, etc etc) I´m curious about that.
Cheers and good luck with your project,
Jacob
Jacob,
Fostex wise, I have 208 Sigma (original), fe103e, fe166es-r, and another small one, can't remeber which model. The 208 Sigma is my favorite in a Jerico Horn. The fe103e is the best in the midrange. The es-r is okay but in all fairness I have not listened to it extensively, its in a "super Swan " cabinet, iirc its the BH-150 (bass you would not believe from a 6-1/2" driver)
The Visaton B200 is better to my ears mostly because I think the mids are better than the Fostex especially wrt to clarity, lyrics that may sound somewhat muddy or hard to understand with the Fostex are clear and lucid.
The mids also seem to have a little more "body", I suppose thats because the B200 will play much lower which it is designed to do.
The perceived sound is as "fast" as the Fostex.
The B200 just sounds "right".
Maybe the lack of a whizzer clears the sound up? Anyway, imo the B200 is better than the Fostex's I have.
Often times I play them alone without the subs on and really enjoy them, the subs are like the butter on the bread, or icing on the cake.
If I could find space for a full sized open baffle I would probably use them like that without the subs. Yes, I would loose the bass but for my musical tastes I do not think I would loose a whole lot. Having said that though, the bass from the subs is sooooo good wih music that has bass.
The problem with the subs I have (not really the subs but the music) is that depending on the recording the bass is slightly over or under emphasized, while its not very often that it does occur I sometimes
feel the need to tweek the crossover setting.
I made a passive filter for 3db @ ~ 90 db for the B200 but do not have it in now.
I'm still playing around, well not for the last few and next few weeks but soon enough.
Andrew
Fostex wise, I have 208 Sigma (original), fe103e, fe166es-r, and another small one, can't remeber which model. The 208 Sigma is my favorite in a Jerico Horn. The fe103e is the best in the midrange. The es-r is okay but in all fairness I have not listened to it extensively, its in a "super Swan " cabinet, iirc its the BH-150 (bass you would not believe from a 6-1/2" driver)
The Visaton B200 is better to my ears mostly because I think the mids are better than the Fostex especially wrt to clarity, lyrics that may sound somewhat muddy or hard to understand with the Fostex are clear and lucid.
The mids also seem to have a little more "body", I suppose thats because the B200 will play much lower which it is designed to do.
The perceived sound is as "fast" as the Fostex.
The B200 just sounds "right".
Maybe the lack of a whizzer clears the sound up? Anyway, imo the B200 is better than the Fostex's I have.
Often times I play them alone without the subs on and really enjoy them, the subs are like the butter on the bread, or icing on the cake.
If I could find space for a full sized open baffle I would probably use them like that without the subs. Yes, I would loose the bass but for my musical tastes I do not think I would loose a whole lot. Having said that though, the bass from the subs is sooooo good wih music that has bass.
The problem with the subs I have (not really the subs but the music) is that depending on the recording the bass is slightly over or under emphasized, while its not very often that it does occur I sometimes
feel the need to tweek the crossover setting.
I made a passive filter for 3db @ ~ 90 db for the B200 but do not have it in now.
I'm still playing around, well not for the last few and next few weeks but soon enough.
Andrew
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