looks like parallel & series combined
parallel for tweeter
series for mid and woofer
perhaps they tried to make it 2.5 way
parallel for tweeter
series for mid and woofer
perhaps they tried to make it 2.5 way
I wonder if this circuit is drawn correctly?
One way to utilize a woofer+midwoofer is a series connection with a capacitor across the woofer to allow higher frequencies to bypass it and go to the midwoofer. Then both would operate together at lowest frequencies, dividing the cone excursion between them. At higher frequencies the cap would 'short out' the woofer, and those frequencies would be produced predominantly by the midwoofer.
That would, it seems to me, require a connection of C6 across both terminals of the woofer. The way the circuit is drawn it looks like there is no such connection. It is also possible there is something more subtle going on here that I am not understanding.
One way to utilize a woofer+midwoofer is a series connection with a capacitor across the woofer to allow higher frequencies to bypass it and go to the midwoofer. Then both would operate together at lowest frequencies, dividing the cone excursion between them. At higher frequencies the cap would 'short out' the woofer, and those frequencies would be produced predominantly by the midwoofer.
That would, it seems to me, require a connection of C6 across both terminals of the woofer. The way the circuit is drawn it looks like there is no such connection. It is also possible there is something more subtle going on here that I am not understanding.
i don't know....but i think is a strange schematics
the midwoofer is 13cm and the wf is 22cm, why they must work together ?, is a nonsense
could you simulate this filter, so we can understand if it is wrong or not
the midwoofer is 13cm and the wf is 22cm, why they must work together ?, is a nonsense
could you simulate this filter, so we can understand if it is wrong or not
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thank you Jacques!
please answer to my following questions :
- what I see in the photo is the simulation of the crossover?
- if yes, what represent the two curves ?
- what software do you used for that simulation ?
- why in the graph there isn't frequency and db scales ?
please answer to my following questions :
- what I see in the photo is the simulation of the crossover?
- if yes, what represent the two curves ?
- what software do you used for that simulation ?
- why in the graph there isn't frequency and db scales ?
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You're welcome. I won't call it a simulation of YOUR crossover - let's say it's an illustrative simulation of this type of crossover with more or less sensible component values. I might as well have drawn it with a pencil. There are no values because it's qualitative, not quantitative. I didn't have any actual component values so it would have been misleading to include values on the axes. I simply used an electronic circuit simulator (5spice) with your crossover topology loaded by 8 Ohm resistors to come up with the graphs. The blue trace is the woofer and the red the midwoofer, if that is what they are. Stevebogus and adason have hit the nail on the head. C6 IS connected across both woofer terminals. The only reason for my response was to show that there's nothing wrong or unusual about the circuit. A "real" crossover simulation would be more involved and would require component and driver data, and more software resources than I have at my disposal. Or at least a lumped driver model or two. (I'm not overly fond of crossovers and loath to go into this too deeply. Those who work with crossovers all the time would be able to simulate this blindfolded, with their hands and feet tied behind them. Or to point you to appropriate software.) There's a thread on this site http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/259865-xsim-free-crossover-designer-new-post.html treating a basic crossover simulator which can be downloaded easily and be used for your needs. In fact, there's a host of such programs. One simply picks one's poison.
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yes, you are right.
however i don't understand why midwoofer and woofer work together, about my point of you is a nonsense besause are different in diameter 13cm vs 22cm.
what about you point if view ?
however i don't understand why midwoofer and woofer work together, about my point of you is a nonsense besause are different in diameter 13cm vs 22cm.
what about you point if view ?
You could have made it easier for us by including where you got this schematic. I did some searching and found it, along with the following paragraphs from the speaker manufacturer:
The New Beta loudspeaker by EMMESpeakers at a first look can be easily confused with a three ways design but, despite of its aspect, it's closer to a 2 1/2 ways design even if rather unconventional.
It has been wanted, since the early design phases, to reach a sound reproduction of a 2 ways in sealed box but with the wider frequency response and higher power handling typical of a multi-way loudspeakers. To do that a fast 5" Mid Woofer is supported, at in low frequency, by 8" Woofer, connected to each other with a 'quasi' series network.
Looking at the NEW BETA crossover, different types of networks can be seen. While the TW has a conventional third order network, the 5" MW and 8"WF are connected in series and managed by a third order network (L2, C4, L3). A further capacitor (C6) by-passes the 8" Woofer in mid frequency, leaving the MW able to reach the crossover (fourth acoustical order) alone with the Tweeter at 1.3 kHz.
The C5-R4 Zobel network is tuned to align the 5" MW phase response to the desired value. The graphic shows the relative phase between TW and MW, fixed in crossover region at 45 degrees.
Our studies have determined that the relative phase of 45 degrees provides a more stable and wider soundstage.
R3 has an important function of distribution of the amplifier power between WF and MW, in function of each power handling capability.
I trust that the manufacturer will not object to my copying this, since it is part of the description they have released to the public.
Here the manufacturer has described the functions of the crossover. The woofer/midwoofer are probably not working together at the lowest frequencies, but that is not handled by the crossover. The midwoofer cannot provide much response in the lowest octaves due to the natural 2nd-order rolloff of a speaker below its resonance frequency. My guess is the designer placed it in a subenclosure which shaped the rolloff to the desired frequency and Q. Because of this no additional electrical rolloff is needed in the crossover. The woofer augments the response below the midwoofer rolloff point. As the manufacturer hints, R3 limits the SPL of the woofer so that it does not dominate the midwoofer in the range where both are working together.
I still suspect that the crossover schematic is not quite correctly reproduced. Possibly intentionally, to prevent someone from attempting to copy it without knowing what they are doing.
The New Beta loudspeaker by EMMESpeakers at a first look can be easily confused with a three ways design but, despite of its aspect, it's closer to a 2 1/2 ways design even if rather unconventional.
It has been wanted, since the early design phases, to reach a sound reproduction of a 2 ways in sealed box but with the wider frequency response and higher power handling typical of a multi-way loudspeakers. To do that a fast 5" Mid Woofer is supported, at in low frequency, by 8" Woofer, connected to each other with a 'quasi' series network.
Looking at the NEW BETA crossover, different types of networks can be seen. While the TW has a conventional third order network, the 5" MW and 8"WF are connected in series and managed by a third order network (L2, C4, L3). A further capacitor (C6) by-passes the 8" Woofer in mid frequency, leaving the MW able to reach the crossover (fourth acoustical order) alone with the Tweeter at 1.3 kHz.
The C5-R4 Zobel network is tuned to align the 5" MW phase response to the desired value. The graphic shows the relative phase between TW and MW, fixed in crossover region at 45 degrees.
Our studies have determined that the relative phase of 45 degrees provides a more stable and wider soundstage.
R3 has an important function of distribution of the amplifier power between WF and MW, in function of each power handling capability.
I trust that the manufacturer will not object to my copying this, since it is part of the description they have released to the public.
Here the manufacturer has described the functions of the crossover. The woofer/midwoofer are probably not working together at the lowest frequencies, but that is not handled by the crossover. The midwoofer cannot provide much response in the lowest octaves due to the natural 2nd-order rolloff of a speaker below its resonance frequency. My guess is the designer placed it in a subenclosure which shaped the rolloff to the desired frequency and Q. Because of this no additional electrical rolloff is needed in the crossover. The woofer augments the response below the midwoofer rolloff point. As the manufacturer hints, R3 limits the SPL of the woofer so that it does not dominate the midwoofer in the range where both are working together.
I still suspect that the crossover schematic is not quite correctly reproduced. Possibly intentionally, to prevent someone from attempting to copy it without knowing what they are doing.
Dear Sirs,
I'm the co-owner and the chief designer of EMMESpeakers and the designer of the posted crossover layout as well.
First of all let me say thank you for Your interest in this specific project.
I have been really impressed by JacquesToo's analisys, that is in substance correct. It can't be completed due the fact he doesn't know the drivers specs and the loading configuration.
But it's correct.
About the two questions posted by diypass:
A) why I used two woofer in different sizes?
B) the C6 function?
Answers:
A) why not? The NEW BETA is a 2.5 ways system but conceptually is a 2ways. The 8" woofer is used to support the 5" at the lower frequencies and both manage the power handling (that for a sealed box systems is an issue).
The wider surface, with the higher sensitivity, of the 8" allow to realign the global low response to a moderate loudness effect.
B) the Low pass network works on the midwoofer-woofer series both. The C6 applies a double slope on the 8" WF
For all drivers the acoustic crossover slope is the 4th. The zobel network before the mid woofer is used to tune the relative acoustic phase (with the tweeter) at 45 degrees.
R3.. It seems so useless but it has a fundamental role: it allows the correct voltage distribution to the mid-woofer and woofer.
I can say that MW and WF work symbiotically.
Not all drivers can be switched to this layout, and a driver changing would require a full re-design of the crossover.
I hope You find it interesting and useful.
I'm the co-owner and the chief designer of EMMESpeakers and the designer of the posted crossover layout as well.
First of all let me say thank you for Your interest in this specific project.
I have been really impressed by JacquesToo's analisys, that is in substance correct. It can't be completed due the fact he doesn't know the drivers specs and the loading configuration.
But it's correct.
About the two questions posted by diypass:
A) why I used two woofer in different sizes?
B) the C6 function?
Answers:
A) why not? The NEW BETA is a 2.5 ways system but conceptually is a 2ways. The 8" woofer is used to support the 5" at the lower frequencies and both manage the power handling (that for a sealed box systems is an issue).
The wider surface, with the higher sensitivity, of the 8" allow to realign the global low response to a moderate loudness effect.
B) the Low pass network works on the midwoofer-woofer series both. The C6 applies a double slope on the 8" WF
For all drivers the acoustic crossover slope is the 4th. The zobel network before the mid woofer is used to tune the relative acoustic phase (with the tweeter) at 45 degrees.
R3.. It seems so useless but it has a fundamental role: it allows the correct voltage distribution to the mid-woofer and woofer.
I can say that MW and WF work symbiotically.
Not all drivers can be switched to this layout, and a driver changing would require a full re-design of the crossover.
I hope You find it interesting and useful.
My pleasure. You must be the handsome guy on the right?
EMMESpeakers snc - Milano - Philosophy - Styling Speakers & Italian Design
EMMESpeakers snc - Milano - Philosophy - Styling Speakers & Italian Design
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