Soooo many posts to respond to....sooo little time.....
This for a start is a rather unfortunate post, as it ignores the fact that much of what is traditionaly called 'science', is infact little more than blind faith, pompously refered to as 'postulate', or 'theory'.
Take the 'Multiverse theory' propounded to circumvent for the PROVEN fact that for a single universe, the odds that cosmological constant came about at random are: 1*10^100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
This 'theory' (speculation in English), requires several leaps of faith that might be considered laughable were they propounded by other than a respected scientist.....
audio-kraut said:
This for a start is a rather unfortunate post, as it ignores the fact that much of what is traditionaly called 'science', is infact little more than blind faith, pompously refered to as 'postulate', or 'theory'.
Take the 'Multiverse theory' propounded to circumvent for the PROVEN fact that for a single universe, the odds that cosmological constant came about at random are: 1*10^100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
This 'theory' (speculation in English), requires several leaps of faith that might be considered laughable were they propounded by other than a respected scientist.....
Couldn't agree more..... some examples .... while many of the theories of evolution hold true, the "Theory of Evolution" has failed to be proven time and time again. Another wonderful example of "Science" is carbon dating.... I suggest that those amongst us that are so inclined read up on the principles behind this laughable excuse of "Science".... much of the archaeological sciences are little better.mikeks said:
It is a scientific absurdity to suggest that the known universe was not actively created.....Absurd!
http://www.theapologiaproject.org/Is There Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God.pdf
http://www.theapologiaproject.org/Is There Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God.pdf
I could certainly explain this .... but let me ask you a question .... are you actually interested in the answer or do you just wish to argue for arguement sake?audio-kraut said:
ok, what do we call religious faith then?
You are welcome to - but I was raised in a christian household, and the antics of the religious right only have so far confirmed my attitude towards "faith".
I am honestly simply unable to believe in anything the old testament preaches. It is different with the new testament - take away the adherence or better "reformation" of the old no longer functioning god.
BTW - that desire and/or need to "explain" the actions of a god - is that not already a hint to the inconsistencies within the frame work of this construct, claerly pointing to a human made origin of same?
A god that truely has revealed himself at one point to the chosen people - should he not have had the power to prevent any doubts regarding his intentions, actions and origin by clearly instructing his disciples and notetakers?
The question that none of the believers has answered yet - why is there even the desire - if they so despise scientific theory (which as far as the term theorie goes is more than speculation) - to create a junction between the two? For whose benefit? Science does not ask for this junction, as science is simply not interested to "scientifically" or at all explain the existence of a creator, nor is it its mandate.
Science is there to explain the phenomena of the "observable" universe. And by the definition of faith - god is not "observable", his existence might only be inferred from his actions - and to me those of the christian construct of god speaks volumes - just not to the benefit of permitting or even the desirebility of his existence.
A god that truely has revealed himself at one point to the chosen people - should he not have had the power to prevent any doubts regarding his intentions, actions and origin by clearly instructing his disciples and notetakers?
The question that none of the believers has answered yet - why is there even the desire - if they so despise scientific theory (which as far as the term theorie goes is more than speculation) - to create a junction between the two? For whose benefit? Science does not ask for this junction, as science is simply not interested to "scientifically" or at all explain the existence of a creator, nor is it its mandate.
Science is there to explain the phenomena of the "observable" universe. And by the definition of faith - god is not "observable", his existence might only be inferred from his actions - and to me those of the christian construct of god speaks volumes - just not to the benefit of permitting or even the desirebility of his existence.
I'm mystified as to what science could possibly have to say about religion and vice versa. Two different animals- it's like wondering about what science has to say about Phil Lesh versus Sting on bass guitar.
Phil is a real bass player not some namby pamby girly-man pop singer. Anyone who disagrees with me is an ignoramus and an idiot. Also doesn't know anything and can't see the forest for the trees.
😡
😡
An intelligent designer would never have provided us with teeth. Teeth that can rot, crack, misalign, loosen and fallout, giving most of us in our lifetimes the most excruciating grief this side of an evening spent strapped to a chair by Dr. Christian Szell - and for what? A god would certainly have concieved a solid piece of alloy for a comfortable lifetime of use? No?
I have to suffer this rather sadistic tribulation because of some ancestors original sin? Hello? Most of us wouldn't take responsibility for our own grandparents crimes and still buckle under this stuff. Whoooooeeeee.
By some strange compulsion (call it the devil - knock yourself out) I've
been unable to talk myself out of responding to this thread. I nearly got myself thrown out of another forum once for just this sort of exchange. No vivid insults. No inapropriate language. Nothing threatening or especially insulting. Something about this topic makes us very well advised to avoid it in mixed company. I'm not going to return to this thread. I've left my graffiti and I'm out of this part of the neighborhood. You'd be smart to do likewise before things get ugly. It would be an awful shame to damage the courtesy and goodwill that dominates this board all around.
I have to suffer this rather sadistic tribulation because of some ancestors original sin? Hello? Most of us wouldn't take responsibility for our own grandparents crimes and still buckle under this stuff. Whoooooeeeee.
By some strange compulsion (call it the devil - knock yourself out) I've
been unable to talk myself out of responding to this thread. I nearly got myself thrown out of another forum once for just this sort of exchange. No vivid insults. No inapropriate language. Nothing threatening or especially insulting. Something about this topic makes us very well advised to avoid it in mixed company. I'm not going to return to this thread. I've left my graffiti and I'm out of this part of the neighborhood. You'd be smart to do likewise before things get ugly. It would be an awful shame to damage the courtesy and goodwill that dominates this board all around.
The universe is much stranger than anybody can imagine....
When i was a kid, i studied the KJV ... even have the copy of the book i was given because i did so well. It didn't take me long to realize that it was a "coloured" translation of a set of books that to get the real point you'd have to understand Greek & Hewbrew as it was in the original context of its creation, and the state of mind of the one's who "wrote" it. How did they reconcile a "universe is much stranger than anybody can imagine..." into the words of the day? At best the KJV is a fuzzy photocopy of something pieced together out of the shredder.
Perhaps there is a central truth, a light, but to say that one book describes this is very narrow minded... there are many religious books and that they all seem to point to the same truth from many directions (with really. these books have more similarity than difference) .... that some of the most interesting Physics seems to be meeting up with the most interesting religions -- but from entirely different direction, indicates to me that there may well be an essence of truth in the many religious writings.
When one's narrow interpretation of their view of the lights allows people to use that as an excuse to go kill other people then they have missed the truth and are being led down a path.... "Christianity" (in the narrow Catholic or Anglican or Evangelical or Moslem or Sihk kind of connotation) has probably killed more people in violence than any other force on this earth, when violence is actually one of the most abhorred things in all of these tomes.
Our world may have life because some other race seeded our world with a virulent formula that did what ever it had to to live (we see the ansector of this in our DNA), or we could be the result of an accident or an experiment that created an uncountable number of universes -- of course some small number of them are going to not be sterile ... or we could be somthing's plaything... the 1st we might be able to track down, the other, unless we can get outside our Universe (perhaps difficult) we will never know.
Back in High School, i accidentially created and became the patriarch of the Left-hand Orthodox Church (later the name had the phrase "of god the utterly indifferent"). So i just live my life with a "christian" philosophy of treat others as you would have them treat you, a kindness will be repaid many times over, think globally, act locally, and be tolerant & understanding of your fellow beings (and don't get in their faces).
As a race we are still babes, i try to move my actions towards the end of the spectrum evidenced by many, many times around the karmic wheel (another alagory -- this one describable in generational/cultural terms)
dave
When i was a kid, i studied the KJV ... even have the copy of the book i was given because i did so well. It didn't take me long to realize that it was a "coloured" translation of a set of books that to get the real point you'd have to understand Greek & Hewbrew as it was in the original context of its creation, and the state of mind of the one's who "wrote" it. How did they reconcile a "universe is much stranger than anybody can imagine..." into the words of the day? At best the KJV is a fuzzy photocopy of something pieced together out of the shredder.
Perhaps there is a central truth, a light, but to say that one book describes this is very narrow minded... there are many religious books and that they all seem to point to the same truth from many directions (with really. these books have more similarity than difference) .... that some of the most interesting Physics seems to be meeting up with the most interesting religions -- but from entirely different direction, indicates to me that there may well be an essence of truth in the many religious writings.
When one's narrow interpretation of their view of the lights allows people to use that as an excuse to go kill other people then they have missed the truth and are being led down a path.... "Christianity" (in the narrow Catholic or Anglican or Evangelical or Moslem or Sihk kind of connotation) has probably killed more people in violence than any other force on this earth, when violence is actually one of the most abhorred things in all of these tomes.
Our world may have life because some other race seeded our world with a virulent formula that did what ever it had to to live (we see the ansector of this in our DNA), or we could be the result of an accident or an experiment that created an uncountable number of universes -- of course some small number of them are going to not be sterile ... or we could be somthing's plaything... the 1st we might be able to track down, the other, unless we can get outside our Universe (perhaps difficult) we will never know.
Back in High School, i accidentially created and became the patriarch of the Left-hand Orthodox Church (later the name had the phrase "of god the utterly indifferent"). So i just live my life with a "christian" philosophy of treat others as you would have them treat you, a kindness will be repaid many times over, think globally, act locally, and be tolerant & understanding of your fellow beings (and don't get in their faces).
As a race we are still babes, i try to move my actions towards the end of the spectrum evidenced by many, many times around the karmic wheel (another alagory -- this one describable in generational/cultural terms)
dave
Teeth 😱, my friend, is just a minor problembluebeard said:
he created dentists too 
But what kind of intelligent designer would create a world with just 2 most common components: hydrogen and stupidity??
You don't. There isn't. You may worship this religion now 😉 As good as any other, no less.
p10, I had to sweat through 12 years of Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic. I don't recommend it, other than for the chuckle one gets when it is realized why a mistranslation required a Virgin Birth. Oh, yeah, and the rather racy story of Lot and his daughters. Much better in Hebrew.
audio-kraut said:
That’s not the way I understand it. God created a being in his own class so to speak, to have like companion. This companion has the ability to choose (free will) and in choosing to serve even though many factors rage against him is a sort of test that yields great satisfaction to both the creator and created.
audio-kraut said:
Bill Gates seems to create problems in every version of operating system, that way he can make money on the fix or a newer operating system. I don’t think God operates that way though, this is a man thing, just because you don’t understand it doesn’t mean it’s dysfunctional, it’s we who are dysfunctional IMO.
audio-kraut said:
Your thinking on a single plane or dimension, The Universe as we know it, in this reality is probably only a single layer of God's Knowledge.
Anyway it all makes sense to me. Don’t see any reason to shut down this thread, if you don’t like the subject then just don’t participate, so far everyone seems to be respectful of others. I have so far enjoyed this thread and it’s contents.
Interesting quote from the Qu'ran:
"Split the heart of the atom and, lo!
within it you will find a sun."
That's quite prescient, given that nuclear forces and their role in solar activity were not known at that time. It's sort of like reading II Kings and seeing, "The speed of light is the same for all observers."
"Split the heart of the atom and, lo!
within it you will find a sun."
That's quite prescient, given that nuclear forces and their role in solar activity were not known at that time. It's sort of like reading II Kings and seeing, "The speed of light is the same for all observers."
Variac said:
Ignoramus and an idiot? And you're a Respectable Social Guy?
Hey VtD, Have you listened to the album Dream of the Blue Turtles? I have and I don't consider myself an ignoramus nor an idiot for considering that to be good music. If you can break away from your busy schedule (presumably writing a book on a "guys guide to dealing with women on public forums") and relax with the album, you might find you enjoy it.
Enjoy the forest my friend, there are more than trees in it.
Cal
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