i use tara labs time and phase II for my highs in my main system, and its pretty decent. got it used from someone who really didnt know the value of it for like $60. its a bi-wire cable too. (using it as single wire). however, in some points, i prefer my old audioquest better. its much smoother.
I don't find that Goertz cables suck the life out at all.
The benefit of this type of construction is not a matter of material, but of construction. This is the only construction that I can think of that offers a low characteristic impedance on the order of what speakers will be. That is not necessarily beneficial, but it does seem to work, at least in my system. That could very well be a side-effect of the amplifier I am using. A wide-bandwidth amplifier could very well work better with a low characteristic impedance cable. This is less likelihood of ringing.
After some careful listening, I am starting to prefer my home brew cables using the foil to my M2.2's. Where I noticed the most difference was in the highes. I have actually found not much difference in the mid-bass. For the highs, single notes/individual instruments do not sound much different, but where I notice a big difference is in complex musical passages. They sound less busy and I am able to identify individual instruments with more clarity.
Alvaius
The benefit of this type of construction is not a matter of material, but of construction. This is the only construction that I can think of that offers a low characteristic impedance on the order of what speakers will be. That is not necessarily beneficial, but it does seem to work, at least in my system. That could very well be a side-effect of the amplifier I am using. A wide-bandwidth amplifier could very well work better with a low characteristic impedance cable. This is less likelihood of ringing.
After some careful listening, I am starting to prefer my home brew cables using the foil to my M2.2's. Where I noticed the most difference was in the highes. I have actually found not much difference in the mid-bass. For the highs, single notes/individual instruments do not sound much different, but where I notice a big difference is in complex musical passages. They sound less busy and I am able to identify individual instruments with more clarity.
Alvaius
I just bought some alpha inductors from PartsExpress that were on closeout. I'm gonna try and make a pair of speaker cables. The inductor was like $7 (14awg/0.66mh I believe), and the spades were like $4 or $5.
I'm gonna do the tape as an insulator version. I have several pairs of Nordost cables, so I'm use to the flimsy nature of these kind of cable.
I'm gonna do the tape as an insulator version. I have several pairs of Nordost cables, so I'm use to the flimsy nature of these kind of cable.
Well I built a pair.
They came out alright. I think I might lightly iron the tape to try and fuse it together better. It likes to seperate a little directly next to the copper, not a problem, would just like tidy it up.
Anyways let the pictures do the talking. I accidently only order 2 pairs of spades, so I only could make one strand
. I do this often, especially with capacitors and stuff, only order enough for one side.
They came out alright. I think I might lightly iron the tape to try and fuse it together better. It likes to seperate a little directly next to the copper, not a problem, would just like tidy it up.
Anyways let the pictures do the talking. I accidently only order 2 pairs of spades, so I only could make one strand
. I do this often, especially with capacitors and stuff, only order enough for one side.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi this thread is really interesting.
I know that to keep inductance low you have to put the "+" and "-" cables parallel to each other. You need more than a pair so you can get the gauge high. But the capacitance gets higher as you add pairs.
I know that to keep inductance low you have to put the "+" and "-" cables parallel to each other. You need more than a pair so you can get the gauge high. But the capacitance gets higher as you add pairs.
Actually you can buy flat copper foil ready insulated.
I don´t know any sources but they sell it for transormer making.
I don´t know any sources but they sell it for transormer making.
the only one i could find:
http://www.wle-shop.co.uk/modules/shop/products.asp?catid=2&rangeid=5
it only comes in 100m rolls though (which are pricey).
http://www.wle-shop.co.uk/modules/shop/products.asp?catid=2&rangeid=5
it only comes in 100m rolls though (which are pricey).
Pan said:
What sort of inductors are you talking about here? The only inductors I know of have solid core windings around a core not a foil winding. I'm interested in the idea. Other people have suggested using coax as speaker cable, with a solid centre core and foil outer cross-coupled with another length of coax for the return.
Jon
There are foil inductors from several makers. These are considered the best aircore coils for serious speaker networks.
They come cheap and are easy to unroll and make a speaker cable of.
You can use the foils without insulation and connectors for the cleanest and fastest fix. If you like it you can insulate with plumbers teflon tape or cotton and put spades/bananas on them (not necessary though).
/Peter
They come cheap and are easy to unroll and make a speaker cable of.
You can use the foils without insulation and connectors for the cleanest and fastest fix. If you like it you can insulate with plumbers teflon tape or cotton and put spades/bananas on them (not necessary though).
/Peter
Hi Peter, thank you for your reply.
All,
Does anyone know of an Alphacore supplier (or other foil inductor manufacturer) in the UK. I've had a look on the net and haven't found any. I know Alpha ship internationally but the $35 makes the idea of buying a $15 inductor to experiment with less appealing !
Cheers,
Jon
All,
Does anyone know of an Alphacore supplier (or other foil inductor manufacturer) in the UK. I've had a look on the net and haven't found any. I know Alpha ship internationally but the $35 makes the idea of buying a $15 inductor to experiment with less appealing !
Cheers,
Jon
Does anybody know, how to calculate the inductance of two foil conductors that laying on one another?
I am going to try to make a cable of 4 foils one on top of the other in a +-+- format. It should have very low inductance but high capacitance. The only problem is that the foil from the Mundorf coils isn´t insulated but there is a thin layer of isolation foil that is a bit bigger in width. My problem is to hold the whole thing together. Maybe running tape across the sides is a good idea.
Does anybody have an idea?
I am going to try to make a cable of 4 foils one on top of the other in a +-+- format. It should have very low inductance but high capacitance. The only problem is that the foil from the Mundorf coils isn´t insulated but there is a thin layer of isolation foil that is a bit bigger in width. My problem is to hold the whole thing together. Maybe running tape across the sides is a good idea.
Does anybody have an idea?
promitheus said:
#2...double stick tape.
#1...try this..it is for coaxial construction, so will depart from reality for small width foils or very large spacing..
Cheers, John
Treat it as a double coaxial construct...
given W, width of the tape...
T, insulation thickness between the tapes..
DC, dielectric coeff of 2.7 (teflon, tefzel)
inner diameter is Dinner =W/3.1415
outer diameter is Douter =Dinner+(2*W)
inductance is = 60.96*LN(Douter/Dinner)
Kinda wish I coulda posted the picture instead..
For really far spacings, it reverts to the two wire Terman equation..
Cheers, John
given W, width of the tape...
T, insulation thickness between the tapes..
DC, dielectric coeff of 2.7 (teflon, tefzel)
inner diameter is Dinner =W/3.1415
outer diameter is Douter =Dinner+(2*W)
inductance is = 60.96*LN(Douter/Dinner)
Kinda wish I coulda posted the picture instead..
For really far spacings, it reverts to the two wire Terman equation..
Cheers, John
Ah, figured it out..the jpeg was too high....
Here it is..
While used for dual braid coax, it is applicable to flat conductors, as long as the spacing is small compared to the width..
It is inductance per foot vs diameter (width/pi), for various insulation thickness..so for 1 inch wide ribbons, use 1/pi for the diameter...Bad image, not very clear...let's try this:
<img src="http://forums.audioreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=660&stc=1">
Bah...that didn't work either..oh well, it's there if anyone wants a better image..
Cheers, John
Here it is..
While used for dual braid coax, it is applicable to flat conductors, as long as the spacing is small compared to the width..
It is inductance per foot vs diameter (width/pi), for various insulation thickness..so for 1 inch wide ribbons, use 1/pi for the diameter...Bad image, not very clear...let's try this:
<img src="http://forums.audioreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=660&stc=1">
Bah...that didn't work either..oh well, it's there if anyone wants a better image..
Cheers, John
Attachments
I found copper foil easily:
25mm .05mm ~20M/22 yards from EcoFused
Ghost Wire 2.0, Super Flat Adhesive Speaker Wire, 16 AWG
AT528 19 & 25mm .05mm 33M/36yard from Advanced Tapes
AT525 50mm .035mm 33M/36yard from Advanced Tapes
There are AT526 which I think for 0.035mm (1.4mil) might be to thin for 25mm so I'll use AT528 (0.05mm = 2 mil) and AT528 with 50mm width might be a good try.
But for the love of god I could not find ANY silver foil anywhere except:
http://vacuumstate.com
DIY and Tuning High-End Audio Cables | SOLIDCOREAUDIO
Any clues on where I can find Silver foil in widths of 3mm, 25mm and 50mm ??
25mm .05mm ~20M/22 yards from EcoFused
Ghost Wire 2.0, Super Flat Adhesive Speaker Wire, 16 AWG
AT528 19 & 25mm .05mm 33M/36yard from Advanced Tapes
AT525 50mm .035mm 33M/36yard from Advanced Tapes
There are AT526 which I think for 0.035mm (1.4mil) might be to thin for 25mm so I'll use AT528 (0.05mm = 2 mil) and AT528 with 50mm width might be a good try.
But for the love of god I could not find ANY silver foil anywhere except:
http://vacuumstate.com
DIY and Tuning High-End Audio Cables | SOLIDCOREAUDIO
Any clues on where I can find Silver foil in widths of 3mm, 25mm and 50mm ??
Last edited:
I guess that those seventeen years that has passed has increased the availibilty of parts locally and globally