I have search and cannot find any threads that would give instruction how to convert my 3m 213 using enx 370 watt/82 volt bulb to a metal halide. Let me know what you have got folks.
painfully obvious or painful?
I don't mean to sound harsh here, and since I've never actually done a retrofit, I'm not even speaking from experience. But if a retrofit is so difficult to figure out how to do, then I wouldn't suggest even trying one. You're talking about a lot of juice that you could potentially take on if you miswire the thing.
OHP's are very simple circuits to figure out, and from what I've seen, retrofitting to a MH is just as simple of a circuit.
Maybe you're asking something different than what I picked up on. Maybe you're asking where the bulb should be in relation to the fresnel, or you're asking about proper ventilation for your OHP. In which case, I think you're probably asking valid questions. But if you're asking how to wire the puppy up, I would strongly suggest getting someone who understands the important of using something a little safer than black electricians tape.
I'm no electrical engineer... I'm just a hobbyist who knows not to stick his tongue in it while it's on... And if I can figure it out, anyone can... Just get some help before you go playing with 120VAC (or even 220VAC if you're somewhere that uses that).
Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, but crispy DIYers don't help anything.
I don't mean to sound harsh here, and since I've never actually done a retrofit, I'm not even speaking from experience. But if a retrofit is so difficult to figure out how to do, then I wouldn't suggest even trying one. You're talking about a lot of juice that you could potentially take on if you miswire the thing.
OHP's are very simple circuits to figure out, and from what I've seen, retrofitting to a MH is just as simple of a circuit.
Maybe you're asking something different than what I picked up on. Maybe you're asking where the bulb should be in relation to the fresnel, or you're asking about proper ventilation for your OHP. In which case, I think you're probably asking valid questions. But if you're asking how to wire the puppy up, I would strongly suggest getting someone who understands the important of using something a little safer than black electricians tape.
I'm no electrical engineer... I'm just a hobbyist who knows not to stick his tongue in it while it's on... And if I can figure it out, anyone can... Just get some help before you go playing with 120VAC (or even 220VAC if you're somewhere that uses that).
Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, but crispy DIYers don't help anything.
Agreed
I'd say that you will need to buy a need socket to place the bulb in, and you will mos. def. need to get a new ballast to power the sucker. Wiring is really simple:
5 wires go into the ballast:
green = ground
2 more (normally black and white) goto the AC power grip
2 more go to the light bulb (mine are blue and yellow)
the ballast will have marked where each wire needs to connect to, just read the manual.
I'd say that you will need to buy a need socket to place the bulb in, and you will mos. def. need to get a new ballast to power the sucker. Wiring is really simple:
5 wires go into the ballast:
green = ground
2 more (normally black and white) goto the AC power grip
2 more go to the light bulb (mine are blue and yellow)
the ballast will have marked where each wire needs to connect to, just read the manual.
Your not going to find step by step instructions for your exact model OHP. All of the info on moding them is already here.
Hi, Hammer.
I'd have a few questions to start with. How old are you and do you know any basic wiring?
I know the few previous posts to mine seem to be a little irked at such a simple question. It's hard when something is easy for me to see, understand, and do, to not get frustrated with someone asking "how" when it seems like something trivial to me, but, it happens. So....
Also if you don't know wiring, I'm sure you may be a bit confused even if you've done a search because some of the posts consist of "I modified for MH" Here's the pic of the finished product! but no instructions on how they got from point "A" to point "B". Sometimes we assume that because this is easy, everyone should understand the process.
You are going to have to disconnect and remove the old light assembly and put in all new parts. There is no slipping in a MH bulb into a setup meant for another kind of bulb. You will be installing a new ballust and lamp socket appropriate to the type of bulb you want to put in.
In my opinion, basic wiring is really idiot work and not hard if you follow a few rules:
1) unplug it when you are working on it.
2) For incoming power, black is hot, white is neutral, green or bare copper is ground
3) From the ballast to the socket, the colors will be different, but there should be a legend to tell you which is which - this is so you don't confuse incoming power with the wires that should lead to the socket.
4) Isolate and disconnect only the wires that were supplying the old light setup - don't mess with anything else or you may unintenionally disconnect your fan or disconnect something from the switch that turns the whole thing on. (This can be hard to put back together if you don't know about wiring switches, especially if there are fan timers, safety shut-offs, etc. inline)
5) as mentioned before, use wire nuts, not electrical tape. As an added precaution (after you test to see if everything is working) you can wrap the wirenuts all up with electrical tape and extend the wrap a little ways down the wire (especially if you have stripped the wires too far and you can see bare wire past the back end of the wire nut)
6) Refer to #1
Now, if all of that scares you, definately either have someone that knows what they are doing either do it or watch over you and give you instructions. Once you've been shown, it's not so scary. I'm 34 years old, 4'11" and all of 95lbs, and of course, a female, but I've rewired my whole house, all the outlets, fixtures and install my own breakers. It's the unknown that makes it seem ominious.
I'm not saying "go for it" if you know nothing about wiring. It's still electricity and it can still zap the crap out of you if it doesn't kill you if you do it wrong, or in the least, can fry some equipment so please, just make an assessment of your own skills and make a wise decision. Whatever you decide, you do it at your own risk, because I think the point has been made that you should not attempt it if you don't know what you are doing. Nobody here wants to be responsible for encouraging someone else to fry themselves.
I'd have a few questions to start with. How old are you and do you know any basic wiring?
I know the few previous posts to mine seem to be a little irked at such a simple question. It's hard when something is easy for me to see, understand, and do, to not get frustrated with someone asking "how" when it seems like something trivial to me, but, it happens. So....
Also if you don't know wiring, I'm sure you may be a bit confused even if you've done a search because some of the posts consist of "I modified for MH" Here's the pic of the finished product! but no instructions on how they got from point "A" to point "B". Sometimes we assume that because this is easy, everyone should understand the process.
You are going to have to disconnect and remove the old light assembly and put in all new parts. There is no slipping in a MH bulb into a setup meant for another kind of bulb. You will be installing a new ballust and lamp socket appropriate to the type of bulb you want to put in.
In my opinion, basic wiring is really idiot work and not hard if you follow a few rules:
1) unplug it when you are working on it.
2) For incoming power, black is hot, white is neutral, green or bare copper is ground
3) From the ballast to the socket, the colors will be different, but there should be a legend to tell you which is which - this is so you don't confuse incoming power with the wires that should lead to the socket.
4) Isolate and disconnect only the wires that were supplying the old light setup - don't mess with anything else or you may unintenionally disconnect your fan or disconnect something from the switch that turns the whole thing on. (This can be hard to put back together if you don't know about wiring switches, especially if there are fan timers, safety shut-offs, etc. inline)
5) as mentioned before, use wire nuts, not electrical tape. As an added precaution (after you test to see if everything is working) you can wrap the wirenuts all up with electrical tape and extend the wrap a little ways down the wire (especially if you have stripped the wires too far and you can see bare wire past the back end of the wire nut)
6) Refer to #1
Now, if all of that scares you, definately either have someone that knows what they are doing either do it or watch over you and give you instructions. Once you've been shown, it's not so scary. I'm 34 years old, 4'11" and all of 95lbs, and of course, a female, but I've rewired my whole house, all the outlets, fixtures and install my own breakers. It's the unknown that makes it seem ominious.
I'm not saying "go for it" if you know nothing about wiring. It's still electricity and it can still zap the crap out of you if it doesn't kill you if you do it wrong, or in the least, can fry some equipment so please, just make an assessment of your own skills and make a wise decision. Whatever you decide, you do it at your own risk, because I think the point has been made that you should not attempt it if you don't know what you are doing. Nobody here wants to be responsible for encouraging someone else to fry themselves.
rephrasing
Lori, I suppose you mean me 🙂 I really hoped I didn't come across as "irked" more "concerned"
I guess I probably should have taken the time to describe the process myself, but having not done one, I didn't really want to give any bum advice.
What you stated is pretty good, but I have one concern... I'll pose it in the form of a question...
You mentioned only to take the bulb assembly out of the OHP and not to mess with any of the rest of the circuit. My question is: What if there is a transformer stepping the voltage down or up to something other than 120VAC in the OHP. I've looked at several OHP schematics, and they all are very simple, and I've posed a question before about putting a FXL or ENX bulb in an OHP that runs a DYS bulb... I never got a totally straight answer on whether or not there was any kind of transformer stepping FXL/ENX OHP's down to the 82V that the bulbs run on.
So if Hammer were to put a 120V ballast in the circuit in place of a light assembly that is only running at 82V he is not going to get the result he is expecting and possibly do damage to the ballast. Or if the voltage is running even higer, could do the same thing.
But, if the circuit is running 82V, then from the schematics I've seen, the fans and any other components in the circuit could be designed for the 82V... So if he replaced the whole circuit without the step down transformer, he could cause damage that way.
If the OHP is not running at the 120V he needs, then he needs to tie into the transformer (which may not even be possible if the transformer is part of the actual plug) to pick up his 120V.
This is why I had recommended getting the help of someone who could walk him through it... I think retrofitting an OHP with a ballast and MH is a great way to learn something about general circuits, but be safe... like I said, it's a lot of juice... it's not like the 5V and 12V circuits that I cut my teeth on.
I realize it's not my job, nor my duty to protect hammer, or anyone else here for that matter, just trying to be helpful, but coming up short I guess 🙂
Lori said:
Lori, I suppose you mean me 🙂 I really hoped I didn't come across as "irked" more "concerned"
I guess I probably should have taken the time to describe the process myself, but having not done one, I didn't really want to give any bum advice.
What you stated is pretty good, but I have one concern... I'll pose it in the form of a question...
You mentioned only to take the bulb assembly out of the OHP and not to mess with any of the rest of the circuit. My question is: What if there is a transformer stepping the voltage down or up to something other than 120VAC in the OHP. I've looked at several OHP schematics, and they all are very simple, and I've posed a question before about putting a FXL or ENX bulb in an OHP that runs a DYS bulb... I never got a totally straight answer on whether or not there was any kind of transformer stepping FXL/ENX OHP's down to the 82V that the bulbs run on.
So if Hammer were to put a 120V ballast in the circuit in place of a light assembly that is only running at 82V he is not going to get the result he is expecting and possibly do damage to the ballast. Or if the voltage is running even higer, could do the same thing.
But, if the circuit is running 82V, then from the schematics I've seen, the fans and any other components in the circuit could be designed for the 82V... So if he replaced the whole circuit without the step down transformer, he could cause damage that way.
If the OHP is not running at the 120V he needs, then he needs to tie into the transformer (which may not even be possible if the transformer is part of the actual plug) to pick up his 120V.
This is why I had recommended getting the help of someone who could walk him through it... I think retrofitting an OHP with a ballast and MH is a great way to learn something about general circuits, but be safe... like I said, it's a lot of juice... it's not like the 5V and 12V circuits that I cut my teeth on.
I realize it's not my job, nor my duty to protect hammer, or anyone else here for that matter, just trying to be helpful, but coming up short I guess 🙂
I did not mean to imply that you in particular might be "irked" actually I got that feel from other threads where people had asked some pretty straight forward questions and been flamed. This thread is not a case such as that, but I see it happen. People's thought processes are different and what might make perfect sense to some, does not to others. I see it alot, and I'm not exactly patient when it comes to instructing people because I do it once, I see it once and I'm pretty much on my own after that. Some people need to see/hear/read a logical progression. A starting point and steps between. People just have different means attaining comprehension.
You make an excellent point. I intended to mention that there might be transformers etc. complicating things, but it was meant more as a means of progression and where to start than a step by step tutorial. There are so many models and brands out there it is impossible to give someone a step by step. I should have mentioned it for safety's sake and the sake of being thorough. I apologize for having not done so. I felt my post was getting rather long and not being a regular here, didn't want to step on any toes.
So, I apologize for giving only "half the picture." and thank you for being concerned enough to point it out - and not telling me to take a hike.
You make an excellent point. I intended to mention that there might be transformers etc. complicating things, but it was meant more as a means of progression and where to start than a step by step tutorial. There are so many models and brands out there it is impossible to give someone a step by step. I should have mentioned it for safety's sake and the sake of being thorough. I apologize for having not done so. I felt my post was getting rather long and not being a regular here, didn't want to step on any toes.
So, I apologize for giving only "half the picture." and thank you for being concerned enough to point it out - and not telling me to take a hike.
No problem Lori 🙂
If you take a look at page 17/21 here:
http://www.mbelectronics.com/3M/213_313/213_313_sm.pdf
I think that the bottom schematic is the one that will match your OHP Hammer.
It looks to me like you could remove the whole transformer assy then. Without knowing what the inside of the OHP really looks like, I would say that if you took the transformer out, and replaced it with the ballast you'd be in super good shape.
The transformer doesn't show a connection to ground though, so you'll want to find a good ground that you can tie the ballast into also.
I still think you should have someone double check your work though if you're not completely comfortable with it... If you happen to have a bare wire out touching the case, you could be in for a ride when you go to turn it on.
Also, make sure you unplug first... even with the power switch off, it's still just a mighty fine idea not to let any power in until you're completely ready. This one I know from experience!
If you take a look at page 17/21 here:
http://www.mbelectronics.com/3M/213_313/213_313_sm.pdf
I think that the bottom schematic is the one that will match your OHP Hammer.
It looks to me like you could remove the whole transformer assy then. Without knowing what the inside of the OHP really looks like, I would say that if you took the transformer out, and replaced it with the ballast you'd be in super good shape.
The transformer doesn't show a connection to ground though, so you'll want to find a good ground that you can tie the ballast into also.
I still think you should have someone double check your work though if you're not completely comfortable with it... If you happen to have a bare wire out touching the case, you could be in for a ride when you go to turn it on.
Also, make sure you unplug first... even with the power switch off, it's still just a mighty fine idea not to let any power in until you're completely ready. This one I know from experience!
Thanks
That manual is going to be a big help. And loni thanks for the step by step. I am 6 ft tall 250 lbs and I can take 110 volts. The info provided will be of great assistance. Now i just need to figure out what kind of bulb I should be getting and where in fact to get it. Most of the mh Bulbs are the ones in the lcd projectors, but they cost $300 to $400. I may as well just buy an lcd projector. The 2 buld set up in DIY lcd projector with the icecap balast, I do not hink would work in a ohp set up. So what else is there. let me know. thanks
That manual is going to be a big help. And loni thanks for the step by step. I am 6 ft tall 250 lbs and I can take 110 volts. The info provided will be of great assistance. Now i just need to figure out what kind of bulb I should be getting and where in fact to get it. Most of the mh Bulbs are the ones in the lcd projectors, but they cost $300 to $400. I may as well just buy an lcd projector. The 2 buld set up in DIY lcd projector with the icecap balast, I do not hink would work in a ohp set up. So what else is there. let me know. thanks
Hammer, I think the icecap is probably the best way for you to go... it will run a far cheaper bulb... check diylabs.org for the stuff you need.
And also, I'm 6'0 230lbs, and I've taken a 160V hit off a large capacitor, it almost knocked off my stool, and I put away the tools for the night. Went back to it the next day and made sure the cap was discharged. Now when I work on other monitors like the one that cap was in, I always double check the fuse that blows and leaves the cap charged, and then I double check the cap itself and discharge as necessary.
The cap may have had more voltage than your wall socket, but it didn't have nearly the amperage...
And don't forget, that even though, you may live through some errant charge from a poorly wired OHP, the LCD you plan to lay down on it most likely won't.
And also, I'm 6'0 230lbs, and I've taken a 160V hit off a large capacitor, it almost knocked off my stool, and I put away the tools for the night. Went back to it the next day and made sure the cap was discharged. Now when I work on other monitors like the one that cap was in, I always double check the fuse that blows and leaves the cap charged, and then I double check the cap itself and discharge as necessary.
The cap may have had more voltage than your wall socket, but it didn't have nearly the amperage...
And don't forget, that even though, you may live through some errant charge from a poorly wired OHP, the LCD you plan to lay down on it most likely won't.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.