I have started this thread in hope of moving the ever continuing
discussions about Components vs. Design away from the
normal threads.
To get you all up of your chairs, her is my oppinion:
- Magic caps do not exist!
- Transistors from SANKEN are not better than many others!
- The Schematic design (and PCB-layout) are more important than the choice of components!
Ok folks 😉
Let debate
discussions about Components vs. Design away from the
normal threads.
To get you all up of your chairs, her is my oppinion:
- Magic caps do not exist!
- Transistors from SANKEN are not better than many others!
- The Schematic design (and PCB-layout) are more important than the choice of components!
Ok folks 😉
Let debate
Well.... I will agree completely that there aren't magic caps.
Partially that arrangement and placement is more important than parts selection, but, generally, better parts make a better amplifier.
As for your jab at SanKen, no. I have a great respect for SanKen transistors and ICs. I'm not going to say that they're better or worse than many others, because that's simply a matter of opinion and not fact within the realm of diyaudio.
Generally, I find that SanKens are very nice transisors, however, I do still like Motorola very much as well.
Hehe, anybody want to get into a debate over Westinghouse 3055s?
Partially that arrangement and placement is more important than parts selection, but, generally, better parts make a better amplifier.
As for your jab at SanKen, no. I have a great respect for SanKen transistors and ICs. I'm not going to say that they're better or worse than many others, because that's simply a matter of opinion and not fact within the realm of diyaudio.
Generally, I find that SanKens are very nice transisors, however, I do still like Motorola very much as well.
Hehe, anybody want to get into a debate over Westinghouse 3055s?
ACD said:
Hi,
In fact both are important. I don’t see your point here, an educated electronic engineer uses that components which are appropriate for the goal intended. And yes you have normally many choices.
But electronics is in anyway useless if the goal it needs to serve is not properly defined.
Cheers 😉
As for BJT's, IMHO the best power transistors now are Toshiba's 2SA1943/2SC5200. Why? Because of the unbeated linearity of Ic = f(Ib) curve, regardless other parameters, that are perfect, too.
Pavel
Pavel
ACD said:
Magic caps do not exist, however caps should be chosen carefully. Some are much better than others. Frequency response, Inductance, ESR, and variations in capacitance vs voltage are all important parameters. When designing, you must weigh all of these parameters into the design.
Board layout can be critical.... ...however stuffing a perfect board with the poorest of components isn't recomended! 🙂 It takes good components to to make a good circuit, and a good board layout to make it work in the real world!
-Dan
Toshiba
But Sanken's are better, 'cos they are used by well known manufacturers , what I say, Toshiba's too, but by others 
. - that is question, to use or not to use ? 
I will go by my own way 
- 2N3055! or Ad or El or Kt or 6L6 or ... funnel, which have sweetest soud ? I'm sorry boys.
But Sanken's are better, 'cos they are used by well known manufacturers
, what I say, Toshiba's too, but by others . - that is question, to use or not to use ? I will go by my own way - 2N3055! or Ad or El or Kt or 6L6 or ... funnel, which have sweetest soud ? I'm sorry boys.
It's simple:
An electronics engineer should know the limitations of the components and adapt the design to those limitations.
PCB design introduces many parasatic components.
Again, no black magic.
By the way, if want to learn something about electrolytic capacitor's, visit the website from BC components. I have the impression that not many people understand these C's, especially life calculations.
An electronics engineer should know the limitations of the components and adapt the design to those limitations.
PCB design introduces many parasatic components.
Again, no black magic.
By the way, if want to learn something about electrolytic capacitor's, visit the website from BC components. I have the impression that not many people understand these C's, especially life calculations.
Agreed. However some caps are significantly better in some applications. These differences are measurable. They are also audible.
I wouldn't know, never used them. But I plan to.
I wonder if your "socialistic" equanimity extends to tubes? I can absolutely guarantee you that a Sovtek EL34 sounds vey different from a Mullard...
Does that not go without saying? The schematic IS the amp. However... you've put your foot in your own argument here: in the 'other' thread dealing with this (JLH - Pass - Krell clone - Cresendo what sounds best) you are on record agreeing with Wingfeather. And our feathered friend is of the opinion that circuits with identical measured parameters sound identical.
Which means that you think this too (unless you've changed your mind). Which means the schematic means diddly squat! Which means I'm unsure of your opinion on the schematic: is it important or will any circuit that delivers the desired THD/IMD etc do the job? Please clarify as I seem to be confused here...
Magic caps don't exist, but bad one's do, so selecting caps is still an issue.
Sanken, Toshiba are not better then any other BJT, BUT ... it is a LOT easy'r to design an amp with these BJT's then with non audio-BJT's, sure its possible, that i don't argue about.
The last part i don't agree with, both have a lot off inportance to the result off the amp, not only the design, but aswel the components you selected for the design, they have to fit there needs in the design.
And yes "Symmetrical designs are best", well thats my opinion, but you always need twice the components 🙄
Greetz Rudy
Sanken, Toshiba are not better then any other BJT, BUT ... it is a LOT easy'r to design an amp with these BJT's then with non audio-BJT's, sure its possible, that i don't argue about.
The last part i don't agree with, both have a lot off inportance to the result off the amp, not only the design, but aswel the components you selected for the design, they have to fit there needs in the design.
And yes "Symmetrical designs are best", well thats my opinion, but you always need twice the components 🙄
Greetz Rudy
El 34 and others
If you see on both directly same signated tubes, you will see, that they are not visibly the same, but set of their basical parameters is the same. Others significant parameters can be manufacturer by manufacturer little diferent and from theirs look insignificant, but in some cases audible. Can you say, which is better, if both are EL 34 ?
If you see on both directly same signated tubes, you will see, that they are not visibly the same, but set of their basical parameters is the same. Others significant parameters can be manufacturer by manufacturer little diferent and from theirs look insignificant, but in some cases audible. Can you say, which is better, if both are EL 34 ?
Precisely, Upupa...
And unfortunately for ACD the same may be true for transistors and amplifiers in general.
Shriek...
leach super amp is one good example
i have used several combinations, for output trannies i have used mj15003/04, mj11032/33, 2sb554/d424, 2n3055/mj2955, for drivers, mj15003/04,tip42c/42c, for vas, 2sa510/c510,2sa484a/c484a, 92pu06/56, mpsu06/56, for snall signal, bc237/307,bc546/556...with varrying rails of +/-50 to 85volts dc, and the result was the same, very good sound, not tiring to listen to...so i believe design do play a big role...
i have used several combinations, for output trannies i have used mj15003/04, mj11032/33, 2sb554/d424, 2n3055/mj2955, for drivers, mj15003/04,tip42c/42c, for vas, 2sa510/c510,2sa484a/c484a, 92pu06/56, mpsu06/56, for snall signal, bc237/307,bc546/556...with varrying rails of +/-50 to 85volts dc, and the result was the same, very good sound, not tiring to listen to...so i believe design do play a big role...
Well, the feathered friend is back. My overall opinion on this has just been posted onto the thread from which this one came. I think nothing of the kind that the schematic means diddly-squat. I've never said it and I have never thought it. What I DO think is that if two totally different topologies manage to produce less distortion than is audible to the human ear (<0.1%), then they will be indistinguishable. Simple logic really in that if they distort the signal by such a small amount that we can't hear it, how can they sound different?
And if two different topologies manage to produce exactly the same distortion spectrum as each other across every type of load (a feat which seems pretty much impossible), then I think they will also sound the same, for the same reason as above.
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