After reading hundreds of posts from a dozen or so old threads on this subject with so much extraneous opinion and expired links that I am personally exhausted, and would be hard-pressed to find the one nugget of information that I need, when I need it... If we are really intending to share our knowledge, let's make it available and accessible in one place?
It would be great to have a single "Resource" post listing the types and qualities of proven adhesives for CLD that are also readily available in the US and abroad, perhaps from Mail-order sources or local home improvement retailers?
I am particularly interested in adhesives that can be used to create a panel from a mix of different structural and sound/vibration damping materials. I am envisioning a spreadsheet that would have the list of adhesives on the left, and also showing the author's name, dates, relevant properties, application methods, and sourcing information across the the top, maybe also including links to posts describing the adhesive in use and which materials are good candidates for panel construction.
If the OP is willing, I could help by creating a "Starter" Excel page with a column/row format based on the above, to be added to the first post?
Or is there a way to create a wiki page that multiple individuals can edit and add new information as it becomes available, so new readers could find the information easily? I don't think restricting access to one author would be sustainable long-term...
Six- Mpls.
It would be great to have a single "Resource" post listing the types and qualities of proven adhesives for CLD that are also readily available in the US and abroad, perhaps from Mail-order sources or local home improvement retailers?
I am particularly interested in adhesives that can be used to create a panel from a mix of different structural and sound/vibration damping materials. I am envisioning a spreadsheet that would have the list of adhesives on the left, and also showing the author's name, dates, relevant properties, application methods, and sourcing information across the the top, maybe also including links to posts describing the adhesive in use and which materials are good candidates for panel construction.
If the OP is willing, I could help by creating a "Starter" Excel page with a column/row format based on the above, to be added to the first post?
Or is there a way to create a wiki page that multiple individuals can edit and add new information as it becomes available, so new readers could find the information easily? I don't think restricting access to one author would be sustainable long-term...
Six- Mpls.
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I also would be very interested in this. As I have yet to read nearly as many threads as you but I have yet to find any definitive on good and affordable adhesive options.
Constrained layer adhesive? Google "Rutan kit plane construction" or something similar, and follow up. They generally use specific types of fiberglass cloth and epoxy over foam, but at least some of the adhesives should work for wood veneer or other outer-layer stiffeners as well, and any such combination should be easier on your back when finished, and establish different resonance frequencies...
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Kast materialen onderzoek.
This has a bunch of materials and thiknesses. Not much about glue though.
This has a bunch of materials and thiknesses. Not much about glue though.
Please do not needlessly quote the above post in full, at most leave 1 line or 2 to identify it.
It clutters the page for no good reason.
In fact the Forum suggested me:
Hi, already have the ply cutted to make a cld damped sealed enclousure (mainly lateral panels), the idea here is to damp resonance frecuencies of the panels that sitffness wont get out of the band in this case, as the driver is a LEEA 620-re wich is an extended range midrange.
Also will try to do a viscoelastic gasket to mount the driver, many reported most of the improvement would be here! And it make sense, if you have a car, you put the dampers right to the wheel structure (dont know the english name) not in the doors...
The viscoelastic material i found is for the same use as green glue, only here manufacturers rarely put info about the products, they just try to monopolize segments of the market. I believe that every country will have a brand that makes drywall sheets and you got to damp them somehow, so prob there is a prodduct like green glue in every country, prob they wont label it that way, but thats the product one should be after if tries to get green glue like material. Its used to put in the junctions of the sheets and between them and the floor. Bitumen glue is another option that should be avaible worldwide used to glue roof bitumen sheet to avoid humidity passing through your house structure.
Sort of inspired in BBC speakers (sort of because the bottom panel is going to be removable, not the front). The idea was to make construction easy provided my jigsaw likes to dance a little. So, its a simple front and back panel 15 mm rule measured BB ply, and double side cld with the inner panel same dimensions as outer, only 3cm less per side, to let the other panels insert in the sandwich. Upper panel wont be glued to the front and ll have viscoelastic matereial there. Also this geometry seals the visco product with the other panels.
For the back panel i ll try something like what is posted here: (the reason im posting)
How to design a low distortion speaker cabinet by Albert Von Schweikert
Not that much OP but it ll be: back panel -visco glue- bitumen pad - visco glue - polyfill. The bitumen pad will have its top rolled up in a brace between inner layers preassured against the back panel, so it stays there forever despite the weight and doesnt fall with the viscoelastic material.
Also the material is called here fugenditch brand of Knauf.
Also will try to do a viscoelastic gasket to mount the driver, many reported most of the improvement would be here! And it make sense, if you have a car, you put the dampers right to the wheel structure (dont know the english name) not in the doors...
The viscoelastic material i found is for the same use as green glue, only here manufacturers rarely put info about the products, they just try to monopolize segments of the market. I believe that every country will have a brand that makes drywall sheets and you got to damp them somehow, so prob there is a prodduct like green glue in every country, prob they wont label it that way, but thats the product one should be after if tries to get green glue like material. Its used to put in the junctions of the sheets and between them and the floor. Bitumen glue is another option that should be avaible worldwide used to glue roof bitumen sheet to avoid humidity passing through your house structure.
Sort of inspired in BBC speakers (sort of because the bottom panel is going to be removable, not the front). The idea was to make construction easy provided my jigsaw likes to dance a little. So, its a simple front and back panel 15 mm rule measured BB ply, and double side cld with the inner panel same dimensions as outer, only 3cm less per side, to let the other panels insert in the sandwich. Upper panel wont be glued to the front and ll have viscoelastic matereial there. Also this geometry seals the visco product with the other panels.
For the back panel i ll try something like what is posted here: (the reason im posting)
How to design a low distortion speaker cabinet by Albert Von Schweikert
Not that much OP but it ll be: back panel -visco glue- bitumen pad - visco glue - polyfill. The bitumen pad will have its top rolled up in a brace between inner layers preassured against the back panel, so it stays there forever despite the weight and doesnt fall with the viscoelastic material.
Also the material is called here fugenditch brand of Knauf.
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Would you please specify which soudaseal? Because according to various infos -> Shore A between 40-60 work best as viscoelastic material - butyl is there, aswell as ms40! Lots of different products in there, all around 40 - wondering why it didnt work :O
The Soudal is "Fix All X-treme Power", like this:
I'm rather sure that it does not work well because it's elastic and not visco-elastic. I had a chunk of this stuff hardened and it bounces like a rubber ball where as a bitumen or vapour barrier glue balls don't bounce almost at all.
If you put a plastic ruler over the edge of a table and flick some speed to it you can play music by varying how much over the edge the ruler hangs. My Soudal test strips do the same vibrating very aggressively while test strips with the better materials very slooowly return straight and make no sound at all.
But please remember that all this is very empirical from my part. No scientific testing has been done, just some "playing around" and observing.
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+1 for the latex caulk. In the US you can get "DAP Alex" for like $2 a tube. White pigment seems to add a lot of mass compared to the clear, the tube is much heavier in hand. Use a sawtooth trowel to apply a uniform layer on both panels and deadblow mallet to mate. if the material is flat you shouldn't need to clamp, maybe some tiny brads to keep the panels aligned. Make the outer panels a bit oversized and flush trim with a router. Do parallel sides in stages and overlap the edges with the next pair of sides, so none of the panels are actually contacting anything else except the caulk layer. You'll be left with a small (like 1/16") caulk-filled gap along the edges that you can clean out with a v-gouge or router bit and fill with bondo to make a smooth surface you can veneer or paint.
I hope this post isn't repeating stuff from earlier in the thread, but the above process has worked well for me.
I hope this post isn't repeating stuff from earlier in the thread, but the above process has worked well for me.
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Joined 2009
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I've got a big tube of this Everflex Acoustic sealant. Not given it a good test yet but my intention is to use it to fix tiles inside an enclosure. Very cheap at 5 pounds from ToolStation here in the UK. Everflex AC50 Acoustic Sealant & Adhesive | Professional Sealants
Yeah I am wondering if many people have had experience with CLD and tiles and if there is enough of an adhesive property to fix tiles with it and if the results are worth perusing. I have also read various opinions on adding more mass and dampening vs strengthening and dampening (tiles being the latter approach). Does anyone thoughts on what is best?
I would recommend butyl tape, which is a never-hardening solvent-based synthetic rubber adhesive used by builders and professional contractors. Although butyl tapes are not formulated specifically for dampening properties, they dampen well, are quite durable, have good flex / stretch properties, and tend to form a permanent, airtight and waterproof bond to surfaces that they contact due to their aggressive adhesion properties.
Butyl Tapes:Maxell(Sliontec Division)
Normally both sides of the butyl tape will be adhesive, making it well-suited as a dampening adhesive. However it can also be obtained with aluminum foil backing, which could probably be used directly as a CLD application.
Aluminum Foil Butyl Rubber Adhesive Tape for Waterproofing KZ-10 | Product Information | Nitoms, Inc.
Butyl Tapes:Maxell(Sliontec Division)
Normally both sides of the butyl tape will be adhesive, making it well-suited as a dampening adhesive. However it can also be obtained with aluminum foil backing, which could probably be used directly as a CLD application.
Aluminum Foil Butyl Rubber Adhesive Tape for Waterproofing KZ-10 | Product Information | Nitoms, Inc.
I always thought butyl sheets were used specifically for sound deadening and not for sealing airtight/watertight seals in construction.
I use this to line the insides of all my builds nowadays. Big sheets rather than thin tape rolls.
Noico 80 mil (2 mm) 36 sqft (3.4 sqm) car Sound deadening mat - Noico
Sound deadening is only one of the many applications that butyl rubber is suited for.
Types Of Caulk To Use On Commercial Buildings | Waterproof Caulking & Restoration
Construction Tape Trends | 2015-05-01 | Adhesives Magazine
I generally prefer the double-sided varieties of butyl tapes and sheets, since they allow complete freedom in choosing the constraining layer according to the application.
The foil-backed types are a boon when space is tight.
Types Of Caulk To Use On Commercial Buildings | Waterproof Caulking & Restoration
Construction Tape Trends | 2015-05-01 | Adhesives Magazine
I generally prefer the double-sided varieties of butyl tapes and sheets, since they allow complete freedom in choosing the constraining layer according to the application.
The foil-backed types are a boon when space is tight.