Greetings to all fans of quality sound. I have a great request for you. As an amateur in the world of High End Audio, I can't find my way around composing my audio system.
I have been trying to complete my audio system for a long time so that I could play all currently available audio formats from PCM- (44 kHz), MQA to DSD 1024 natives.
What I use.
MacMini (2012) with Intel i7 (3615QM) 2.30GHz processor, 10.00 GB frame and 500GB SSD. I have Windows 10 Pro installed there. I don't use the MacOs operating system because it has limitations. It's true that I also have MacOs there, but through BOOT camp, I use Windows, the reason is that I want to use ASIO.
I can say that there are no problems with that - it's OK.
Only the necessary software for Windows 10 is installed in MacMini, nothing more, no unnecessary things, but mainly ROON LABS (I have purchased a lifetime license). I only use this computer on ROON.
The analog part - only very briefly, is composed of Classé components - 2x CAM 400 monoblock and CP800 MK2 preamplifier. Vivid Audio Oval K1 speakers. The main source of music is digital files that I have stored on the Synology DS 1815+ NAS with port aggregation. So it is connected to the 4x ethernet network via a switch - D-Link - DGS 1210-16, which supports port aggregation and thus 4 ports are reserved for aggregation. The local network is fast 1GB.
And this is where my problem begins !!!
As a D / A converter I bought a Matrix Audio Xsabro PRO MQA.
I connect this DAC USB to MacMini (Windows) ASIO. ROON will find it without any problems and I can currently play almost everything from PCM / MQA to DSD 512 (native)
I am very happy with this DAC and I am almost at the successful end of my endeavor, but I would like to know how to play DSD 1024 through Matrix. That is my problem.
I'm looking for something about the Matrix - some device - which would have an Ethernet socket, through which I would connect it to the local network and the device would support RAAT (roon) but at the same time would have II2s output from which I would connect to input II2s in Matrix Audio X Saber. The Matrix has DSD 1024 (Nativ) support, but only through this II2S port, so if I want to play such a resolution I have to bring the file to this port.
I also heard a lot about the extension for ROON - HQPlayer 4 Desktop.
I don't know if I could configure it (HQPlayer 4 Desktop), but even if I can I always end up with connection problem - USB. Matrix via USB only DSD 512.
As a layman, I may misinterpret the whole thing, but in simplicity I would like to bypass USB, take the MacMini away to another room - (away from the analog part) and send units and zeros via the local network (DSD1024) to the II2s Matrix port which sends directly to the chip.
I got a recommendation to use this device - SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali - KALI Reclocked Network Player I2S LVDS HDMI
SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali - KALI Reclocked Network Player I2S LVDS HDMI - Audiophonics
However the device does not support RAAT - and that is problem.
Please forgive my unprofessionalism.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ANY ANSWER
I have been trying to complete my audio system for a long time so that I could play all currently available audio formats from PCM- (44 kHz), MQA to DSD 1024 natives.
What I use.
MacMini (2012) with Intel i7 (3615QM) 2.30GHz processor, 10.00 GB frame and 500GB SSD. I have Windows 10 Pro installed there. I don't use the MacOs operating system because it has limitations. It's true that I also have MacOs there, but through BOOT camp, I use Windows, the reason is that I want to use ASIO.
I can say that there are no problems with that - it's OK.
Only the necessary software for Windows 10 is installed in MacMini, nothing more, no unnecessary things, but mainly ROON LABS (I have purchased a lifetime license). I only use this computer on ROON.
The analog part - only very briefly, is composed of Classé components - 2x CAM 400 monoblock and CP800 MK2 preamplifier. Vivid Audio Oval K1 speakers. The main source of music is digital files that I have stored on the Synology DS 1815+ NAS with port aggregation. So it is connected to the 4x ethernet network via a switch - D-Link - DGS 1210-16, which supports port aggregation and thus 4 ports are reserved for aggregation. The local network is fast 1GB.
And this is where my problem begins !!!
As a D / A converter I bought a Matrix Audio Xsabro PRO MQA.
I connect this DAC USB to MacMini (Windows) ASIO. ROON will find it without any problems and I can currently play almost everything from PCM / MQA to DSD 512 (native)
I am very happy with this DAC and I am almost at the successful end of my endeavor, but I would like to know how to play DSD 1024 through Matrix. That is my problem.
I'm looking for something about the Matrix - some device - which would have an Ethernet socket, through which I would connect it to the local network and the device would support RAAT (roon) but at the same time would have II2s output from which I would connect to input II2s in Matrix Audio X Saber. The Matrix has DSD 1024 (Nativ) support, but only through this II2S port, so if I want to play such a resolution I have to bring the file to this port.
I also heard a lot about the extension for ROON - HQPlayer 4 Desktop.
I don't know if I could configure it (HQPlayer 4 Desktop), but even if I can I always end up with connection problem - USB. Matrix via USB only DSD 512.
As a layman, I may misinterpret the whole thing, but in simplicity I would like to bypass USB, take the MacMini away to another room - (away from the analog part) and send units and zeros via the local network (DSD1024) to the II2s Matrix port which sends directly to the chip.
I got a recommendation to use this device - SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali - KALI Reclocked Network Player I2S LVDS HDMI
SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali - KALI Reclocked Network Player I2S LVDS HDMI - Audiophonics
However the device does not support RAAT - and that is problem.
Please forgive my unprofessionalism.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ANY ANSWER
Yes, what you describe is the present-day music server model: your Mac Mini will now become a server/fileshare (or possibly just fileshare) and to receive the music streams you need a streamer/renderer/endpoint (these terms are interchangeable).
And yes, renderers which are capable of DSD1024 are likely to be I2S output devices, typically based on a Raspberry Pi with a re-clocking board. You can assemble such hardware, yourself, from separate components, then install and configure the software, but I see that the device you linked from Audiophonics seems to be such a device, with all assembly/configuration already done - so it seems like a good choice for you.
Well the SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali appears to be running Volumio, so I think (?) to make it Roon compatible all you should need to do is install Volumio's Roon Bridge plugin.
People with more knowledge in this are likely to be on the Volumio forum and the Roon forum.
I wonder how they would do DSD1024 over LVDS. The SBC inside is built on Actions Semi S500 SoC Under $40 quad-core Cortex-A9 SBC offers expansion shields . Its datasheet details I2S interface but no DSD support http://mirror.lemaker.org/Datasheet_For_S500_V1.4.pdf. DSD and PCM-I2S are different on hardware level (I2S: BCLK + LRCLK + interleaved data, DSD: BCLK + LDATA + RDATA)
Also the Kali reclocker inside that device does not specify DSD ALLO - Kali i2s Reclocker * Volumio , specifically mentioned in discussion on that page.
I did not find any DSD specs regarding the audiophonics device, IMO it does not support DSD natively.
Also the long coiled black flat cable could hardly transfer single-ended I2S at >700kHz samplerate (36MHz for 24bit format, 45MHz for 32bit format) from the Sparky GPIO header to the LVDS driver.
The X-Sabre HDMI LVDS I2S port does support DSD - the pinout detailed at i2s - Google Drive
RPi cannot output DSD natively as its PCM interface supports PCM only. https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/bcm2711/rpi_DATA_2711_1p0.pdf page 138
Matrix Audio Xsabro PRO MQA is not designed to play DSD1024 via USB unfortunately. They say the IIS LVDS can do it, but the problem is designing an interface for it. Actually, USB to DSD1024 is possible, as Holo Spring dac has it. However they managed to do it is probably the easiest way. Seems to me I heard they had to do some custom XMOS programming to get it to work. They also have a mating Windows driver.
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I am sorry I do not understand. The manufacturer states support for DSD 1024 via the port - IIS-LVDS. So I think the Matrix has support
I quote the manufacturer:
More Sampling Rate Supported
X-SABRE PRO(MQA) can support the Master Quality Authenticated coding technology developed by UK MQA Limited which can decode the MQA audio stream up to 24 Bit 384kHz. When X-SABRE Pro's display is showing "MQA", it means it is decoding the MQA audio authorized by the artist or publisher (MQA Studio). Meanwhile, X-SABRE Pro also can support DSD1024 and PCM audio stream up to 32Bit/768kHz sampling rate.
Matrix Audio - X-SABRE Pro (MQA)
I quote the manufacturer:
More Sampling Rate Supported
X-SABRE PRO(MQA) can support the Master Quality Authenticated coding technology developed by UK MQA Limited which can decode the MQA audio stream up to 24 Bit 384kHz. When X-SABRE Pro's display is showing "MQA", it means it is decoding the MQA audio authorized by the artist or publisher (MQA Studio). Meanwhile, X-SABRE Pro also can support DSD1024 and PCM audio stream up to 32Bit/768kHz sampling rate.
Matrix Audio - X-SABRE Pro (MQA)
To avoid confusion - IMO the SparkDIGI LTE I2S Kali device does not support DSD on its HDMI-LVDS I2S. The X Sabre DAC does support DSD, as confirmed by the google drive document.
Oh, thank you for the clarification. And since as a newbie I can only respond to a private message once every 20 minutes, I write here. And can you advise a device that would fulfill this intention of mine?
I will ask the moderator if he can combine this discussion into one. I don't know how but I created the same theme twice. I apologise. I am new here. WELL THANK YOU
I will merge the two threads.Looks like my last post in the other thread was lost. Oh, well. My point after editing the first response was that DSD1024 over USB has been done in Holo Spring dacs. The way they did it is probably the easiest, cheapest, best way. I say that since USB allows the dac to be run in synchronous mode using its existing internal clocks.
Using the IIS LVDS interface in sync mode would require external low-jitter clocking which IME is not trivial to do well. Async mode would easier and cheaper to interface with but sound quality would suffer with Normal or High DPLL bandwidth.
Probably cheaper and easier just to buy a Holo Spring for DSD1024 playback, would be my guess. Maybe someone else will have a happier solution.
Using the IIS LVDS interface in sync mode would require external low-jitter clocking which IME is not trivial to do well. Async mode would easier and cheaper to interface with but sound quality would suffer with Normal or High DPLL bandwidth.
Probably cheaper and easier just to buy a Holo Spring for DSD1024 playback, would be my guess. Maybe someone else will have a happier solution.
Thank you Mrkw4 for your response and help. But one more question. And what about between MacMini and Matrix add a USB solution with support for DSD 1024.
SINGXER - SU 2 - USB DSD1024 Digital Interface SPDIF AES / EBU I2S HDMI
SINGXER - SU 2 - USB DSD1024 Digital Interface SPDIF AES/EBU I2S HDMI - Magna Hifi
And connect SINGXER to Matrix with very short cable with Matrix I2S ???
SINGXER - SU 2 - USB DSD1024 Digital Interface SPDIF AES / EBU I2S HDMI
SINGXER - SU 2 - USB DSD1024 Digital Interface SPDIF AES/EBU I2S HDMI - Magna Hifi
And connect SINGXER to Matrix with very short cable with Matrix I2S ???
More detailed info on Singer SU-2 at: Singxer SU-2 DSD1024 USB Digital Interface Femtosecond clock Interfac
Maybe it could work, but they don't guarantee it according to their web page: "SU-2 cannot adapt to all HDMI-I2S machines, so we cannot accept returns due to incompatible I2S interfaces."
Looks like there is not more detailed information about it so the choice would be to get one, get a scope to look at the signals (if don't have one already), and try to work it out. IMHO, its a $450 or so crap shoot. Do you want to place a bet?
Maybe it could work, but they don't guarantee it according to their web page: "SU-2 cannot adapt to all HDMI-I2S machines, so we cannot accept returns due to incompatible I2S interfaces."
Looks like there is not more detailed information about it so the choice would be to get one, get a scope to look at the signals (if don't have one already), and try to work it out. IMHO, its a $450 or so crap shoot. Do you want to place a bet?
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Just look at the great document i2s - Google Drive - there is no LVDS I2S standard, every manufacturer has its own pinout.
Personally I do not see a reason to pay 300+EUR for a USB device with master-clock output via clock-recovered SPDIF or jittery I2S (even though LVDS). What is a practical usage for DSD1024, apart of a marketing claim to (try to) justify the price?
But my mileage definitely varies.
Personally I do not see a reason to pay 300+EUR for a USB device with master-clock output via clock-recovered SPDIF or jittery I2S (even though LVDS). What is a practical usage for DSD1024, apart of a marketing claim to (try to) justify the price?
But my mileage definitely varies.
I asked the manufacturer a question about the connection - MacMini / SINGXER - SU 2 - USB DSD1024 / Matrix Audio X Saber as amended:
transfer when connected from MacMini to USB port then from my I2S output to my DAC (Matrix) DSD in native 1024?
The answer came very quickly !!! (great communication)
In fact, the Singxer will not touch the signal at all. It will only transport the USB Audio signal to I2S. If USB receives it natively, the I2S output will also be native DSD !
transfer when connected from MacMini to USB port then from my I2S output to my DAC (Matrix) DSD in native 1024?
The answer came very quickly !!! (great communication)
In fact, the Singxer will not touch the signal at all. It will only transport the USB Audio signal to I2S. If USB receives it natively, the I2S output will also be native DSD !
That makes sense, it is what a USB -> I2S/DSD bridge should do. Still the master clock remains with the USB chip, not the DAC where it should be, to justify the cost, IMO. But I am cheap, I know.
CLOCK INPUT & OUTPUT
SU2 can also be used as an independent master clock. It can output a word clock of 44.1K-384K, or output a master clock of 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz.
independent master clock: it can output a word clock of 44.1K-384K, or output a master clock of 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz. (When not connected to USB, it will be used as the master clock device by default)
Providing an external 10Mhz clock input it will be a frequency converter; support 10Mhz to 44.1K-384K word clock, or output 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz master clock.
SU2 can also be used as an independent master clock. It can output a word clock of 44.1K-384K, or output a master clock of 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz.
independent master clock: it can output a word clock of 44.1K-384K, or output a master clock of 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz. (When not connected to USB, it will be used as the master clock device by default)
Providing an external 10Mhz clock input it will be a frequency converter; support 10Mhz to 44.1K-384K word clock, or output 22.5792Mhz-49.152Mhz master clock.
Those various master clock modes are for synchronizing multiple devices to single clock within the chain, in order to avoid asynchronous resampling.
My point is you pay dear money for a DAC with excellent clock, for a USB-I2S bridge with excellent clock, and end up with not so excellent clock due to long transmission line of the master-clocked I2S. The proper solution would be slaving the SU2 to the clock of your DAC, i.e. reversing the clock direction of the I2S link. I do no know if your DAC and SU2 are capable of such switchover.
My point is you pay dear money for a DAC with excellent clock, for a USB-I2S bridge with excellent clock, and end up with not so excellent clock due to long transmission line of the master-clocked I2S. The proper solution would be slaving the SU2 to the clock of your DAC, i.e. reversing the clock direction of the I2S link. I do no know if your DAC and SU2 are capable of such switchover.