I find it hard to believe that this makes any difference for speaker cables. Sometimes I notice that my equipment sound better after being powered up for a while, but this is a temperature thing. It get cold in my shop, sometimes down to 20 degrees F. It doesn't have anything to do with "dielectric." That's hogwash.
With all respect, I think this particular view is overly simplistic and completely ignore certain factors.
I could go into this at length, but instead I will choose to ignore a large part of the discussion, and just say this:
Historically speaking, humans have used tools and entered apprenticeships roughly around age 8-12 for millennia. All of a sudden we have very strict theoretical education system that put extremely strong emphasis on health and safety, until finally kids get to touch tools for the first time (if the kids themselves make an active choice to do so) around nearly the age of 20.
Not saying this is the reason, but I wonder: is it possibly related somehow?
I was given a ridiculously sharp knife at the age of 6-7 and after a quick explanation about giving and receiving an unsheathed knife + whittling a bit on some plank for 10-15 minutes. I was given free reign on all sorts of tools.
I gave my two girls knives very early, but the rule is some adult has to be close by to watch, the youngest had a big wish high on her list when she was 5, a proper set of tools because the kids stuff wasn't interesting. I gave her about 120$ in various tools in a box, her dearest treasure, surrounded by big fluffy unicorns.
Well put, Captain Obvious. But many from the previous generations also fall for the same nonsense.
Well, I don't believe your story, I think you got some revisionist memory after you got some embarassing questions, and if your friend, that paid you for this work, actually cried, he needs to see a doctor, forget his system.
Still don't understand why snake oil cables incensed you when all the snake oil in the components to get them to $125k price tag is OK?
Still don't understand why snake oil cables incensed you when all the snake oil in the components to get them to $125k price tag is OK?
The system was roughly $20,000... not $125,000 ... he'd spent approximately a third of his money on cables. And you know what, I think I'd probably cry too if I got screwed over that badly.
Yep.. that. Does nothing, costs a small fortune.
The straight and skinny on dialectric effect is on Audioholics ...
In fact, the dialectric effect isn't a serious concern until you get up to the VHF radio region.
The interesting part of your link is this...
"Evaluating the effectiveness of the DBS system requires a cable with its DBS system disconnected for two weeks to be compared with a cable that has had its DBS system attached for two weeks."
... when you consider that most retailers have a 15 day return period on expensive items.
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Sadly that's not how it works.
Capitalism and consumerism has created a world in which 1% of the population controls more than 1/3 of the money. Our hard earned money does not distribute itself through society. It lands in the bank accounts of the already wealthy.
Distribution_of_wealth
Not really. Excess capacitance on speaker cables has been known to take out amplifiers with inadequate stability margins. Testing against the latest crop of Class D amps with output inductors outside of the feedback loop would also be illuminating. While neither case above supports batteries on cables, punditry on something this basic doesn't help.
Do you really believe that the small capacitance of a speaker wire is going to fry an amplifier? We're talking about PICOfarads, your average tweeter crossover has 10^6 times that (typically 4.7uf) just in it's lead capacitor...
From the WikiPedia Speaker Wire page...
Which is one of the reasons I use lamp-cord and avoid the exotics which often have 10 times the capacitive reactance. So, once again common sense argues against the overpriced crap.
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In one or two years time I have no doubt you will see a resurgence of this very topic, as well as "loudness war", fancy caps/op-amps/resistors vs cheap caps/op-amps/resistors, NOS various components vs new +++
These things keep coming back again and again, just takes a little while.
I completely agree it's important to help maintain a more healthy perspective on what's what, and it probably is a very good idea to keep these topics "fresh". But the lounge has evolved into more like a off topic area where the relatively frequent long-term members hang out. And you will most likely be met by walls of nitpicking here, part of the fun and charm IMHO.
You'd get a bigger impact going after new members in the multi way, subwoofer, full range, various amplifier sections of the forum.
These things keep coming back again and again, just takes a little while.
I completely agree it's important to help maintain a more healthy perspective on what's what, and it probably is a very good idea to keep these topics "fresh". But the lounge has evolved into more like a off topic area where the relatively frequent long-term members hang out. And you will most likely be met by walls of nitpicking here, part of the fun and charm IMHO.
You'd get a bigger impact going after new members in the multi way, subwoofer, full range, various amplifier sections of the forum.
12 mins in and can’t watch no more....... I see nothing here but a shill for Harmon?
@kaffimann
I started this here because I didn't want bits and pieces of it scattered all over the other forums. A single presentation made more sense, but there really wasn't any one space suited to this discussion which, in my opinion, is actually off topic for any of the electronics focused areas.
You are correct in that this topic will keep coming up ... and needs to keep coming up... if the hobby is not to devolve into a mire of magic, pseudo-science and unexplained results we need to understand as Andrew Robinson said directly and the others I've linked to have demonstrated ...
Working on projects, developing new designs, even just tweaking a room node is pure, uncompromising science and needs to be seen as such if we want to enjoy any measure of success, at all.
My goal in exposing these horrible lies being told by those with financial interests in selling wildely over priced bullsmut is that of ensuring that magical thinking does not overtake this hobby. I've been around audio either professionally or as a hobby my entire adult life. It genuinely does mean something to me and it's become something of an obsession since I've retired and now have the time to really climb into it again.
The joys are not just tinkering with circuits, or messing with a pair of poorly built speakers, there is an emotional connection to the music. A good song, properly reproduced can make my entire day better. In the end it is about music, which has been part of my life everyday, all my life.
In short: All this means something... to me and hopefully to others.
To see people wasting money hand over fist on the fantastical creations of money grubbers just gets right under my skin. It's my hobby, my passion, being subjected to brigandage for the satisfaction of some fat cats who don't actually need our money at all. I owe these snake oil vendors nothing. I don't buy into the consumerist mindset at all. So if these companies failed and died tomorrow it would be no concern of mine.
On the other hand, if we are to have a beneficial experience in our hobbies, these companies do owe us something. They owe us the Truth about their products, their intentions and their made up science. If that is not forthcoming, then all they will succeed in doing is killing their own market as more and more people walk away from the hobby in utter disgust.
In any case, I've about had my say on this now... I'll post up new videos as they come along, but I do believe the point is made.
I started this here because I didn't want bits and pieces of it scattered all over the other forums. A single presentation made more sense, but there really wasn't any one space suited to this discussion which, in my opinion, is actually off topic for any of the electronics focused areas.
You are correct in that this topic will keep coming up ... and needs to keep coming up... if the hobby is not to devolve into a mire of magic, pseudo-science and unexplained results we need to understand as Andrew Robinson said directly and the others I've linked to have demonstrated ...
Audio is Science there is no magic here.
Working on projects, developing new designs, even just tweaking a room node is pure, uncompromising science and needs to be seen as such if we want to enjoy any measure of success, at all.
My goal in exposing these horrible lies being told by those with financial interests in selling wildely over priced bullsmut is that of ensuring that magical thinking does not overtake this hobby. I've been around audio either professionally or as a hobby my entire adult life. It genuinely does mean something to me and it's become something of an obsession since I've retired and now have the time to really climb into it again.
The joys are not just tinkering with circuits, or messing with a pair of poorly built speakers, there is an emotional connection to the music. A good song, properly reproduced can make my entire day better. In the end it is about music, which has been part of my life everyday, all my life.
In short: All this means something... to me and hopefully to others.
To see people wasting money hand over fist on the fantastical creations of money grubbers just gets right under my skin. It's my hobby, my passion, being subjected to brigandage for the satisfaction of some fat cats who don't actually need our money at all. I owe these snake oil vendors nothing. I don't buy into the consumerist mindset at all. So if these companies failed and died tomorrow it would be no concern of mine.
On the other hand, if we are to have a beneficial experience in our hobbies, these companies do owe us something. They owe us the Truth about their products, their intentions and their made up science. If that is not forthcoming, then all they will succeed in doing is killing their own market as more and more people walk away from the hobby in utter disgust.
In any case, I've about had my say on this now... I'll post up new videos as they come along, but I do believe the point is made.
Then you utterly missed the point...
The analogy to the Ford GT was to demonstrate that not everything is as it may appear... they put a truck engine in a small bodied car and people loved it. A $200k car with the engine from a $20k truck.
Later he talks about how many Harmon products have the same guts... The Mark Levinson, Crown and Lexicon brands (among others) all share a common technology and in at least a couple of cases, are identical products ... at radically different price points. That is... the $50k Levinson amps had the same base designs as the $300 Crown amps... Watch from 14:40 minutes on it's right there.
So now you need to ask why you would spend $50k for Levinson or $2k for Lexicon when the Crown does the job at $300... and you need to ask how many of their other products are similarly price inflated by the name on the front.
It's another form of rip off that's been going on for a long time.
Back in my 2 way radio days, we knew that Radio Shack CBs were mostly made by Cobra ... So $500 for Cobra or $119 for RS? Especially when you take covers off and see the same guts in both.
The same was true of Sears stereos, in their day, most were repackaged JVC.
It's an old game and in his round about way Andrew exposed it for audiophiles to see.
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It's human nature, mine is bigger than yours or something like that. 😀
Why do you think famous designers get away selling clothing priced at 100s X regular folks stuff while offering no advantage in warmth, protection, last longer or otherwise. Folks puts a lot of emphasis on the eyecandy thingy over function, brainwashing by advertisement and all. So no, I do not agree, common sense does not prevail in too many cases. You need to accept that fact, do the best you can or go crazy otherwise. And always remember, one man can make a difference.
Yeah, maybe you should learn to take audio a little less seriously. If you take a big step back, your posts read like a heroin addict complaining about meth addicts giving drugs a bad name.
Shortsightedness seems to be the disconnect......sharing lineage and being one in the same is two very,very different things.
Of course rebranded and hyped with different packaging and higher pricing, yes......quite unethical.
The motors in the GT whether the earlier 5.4 or the newer 3.5 are quite different animals than their f150 counterparts, I’m assuming the same is true of the mark Levinson/crown internals but Harmon realizes they’ll sell many more crowns to ‘thrifty’ audiophiles if the shill
gets ‘the point’ across properly.
Edit......I do see the difference in the cost of high performance vs. good enough, it’s costly to strive for performance no matter what it is, when I raced dirt bikes I’d take a brand new $8k bike and put another $10k into it before even thinking about racing it.....used to make the wife insane (that may have been the biggest value!) 😀
Of course rebranded and hyped with different packaging and higher pricing, yes......quite unethical.
The motors in the GT whether the earlier 5.4 or the newer 3.5 are quite different animals than their f150 counterparts, I’m assuming the same is true of the mark Levinson/crown internals but Harmon realizes they’ll sell many more crowns to ‘thrifty’ audiophiles if the shill
gets ‘the point’ across properly.
Edit......I do see the difference in the cost of high performance vs. good enough, it’s costly to strive for performance no matter what it is, when I raced dirt bikes I’d take a brand new $8k bike and put another $10k into it before even thinking about racing it.....used to make the wife insane (that may have been the biggest value!) 😀
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