Hello everyone. I have three-way loudspeakers with a second order filter. The mids phase is reversed. Would it be possible to use a first order only for the tweeter without causing any phase issues between the tweeter and the mids speaker?
BR
Toni
BR
Toni
Are you not able to return to your original measurements/modelling and see the effect this change would have?
Thank you all for answering. My intention was just to use the first order filter in the tweeter. First of all, I apologize if I say something outrageous. I don't have enough knowledge. I have tried searching the internet for information on this matter before asking the question here. On the other hand, I have read that one of the advantages of first order filters is that they do not have phase problems, on the other that they generate a 45º phase shift. The second 90º. I have rew and I am able to make measurements but honestly I have never given how to interpret phase measurements. In any case, that gap between the first and second order, could not be compensated by the position (alignment) between the tweeter and the media)?
Here's some information I've translated from 'Loudspeakers' by G.A. Briggs:
The phase shift in a 1st order network is 90 degrees. It's effect is not serious but can be countered by pushing the middle speaker back a quarter of a wavelength at the crossover frequency.
The phase shift in a 2nd order network is 180 degrees and it is worth while to ensure that the bass and middle speakers are acoustically in phase (by anti-phase electrical connection) to avoid a dip in response around the frequency of crossover.
I'll add that Mr. Briggs was of the opinion that "above 2/3 kHz, phasing is of no importance in domestic listening".
Hope this information from 1958 may be of some interest!
The phase shift in a 1st order network is 90 degrees. It's effect is not serious but can be countered by pushing the middle speaker back a quarter of a wavelength at the crossover frequency.
The phase shift in a 2nd order network is 180 degrees and it is worth while to ensure that the bass and middle speakers are acoustically in phase (by anti-phase electrical connection) to avoid a dip in response around the frequency of crossover.
I'll add that Mr. Briggs was of the opinion that "above 2/3 kHz, phasing is of no importance in domestic listening".
Hope this information from 1958 may be of some interest!
I interpret the above information as indicating that the correct acoustic phasing between the middle and bass speakers is important, but that the correct acoustic phasing between the middle and treble speakers is of lesser importance.
On that basis, it would appear to be OK for you to use a 1st order crossover on the tweeter alone while leaving the bass/middle crossover unchanged.
Of course, a copy of your current crossover schematic and your intended alteration would allow the experts to comment more fully if required.
On that basis, it would appear to be OK for you to use a 1st order crossover on the tweeter alone while leaving the bass/middle crossover unchanged.
Of course, a copy of your current crossover schematic and your intended alteration would allow the experts to comment more fully if required.
ESS AMT tweeter. Help for correct use
in this link you can see the information about my louspeakers and their filter. I have the possibility to move the tweeter forward or back. I wanted to experiment with EES on a first order crossover. There is already conflicting information in this mini-thread about whether the combination of a first and second order filter significantly alters the phase. Shifting the tweter forward or backward could you offset the gap between a first order in the tweeter and a second order in the mids? if the answer is yes, is there any formula? or just trial and error measuring ...
BR
toni
Toni, it's too vague a question. Without knowing the drivers.
Certainly negative polarity on mids is common enough.
SEAS Kit 503
Do a bit of simming with similar drivers:
Software | Visaton
I am sure Visaton do a planar tweeter which you can put in one of these.
3 Wege – Boxsim Projektdatenbank
Ribbon Tweeters | Visaton
You can put those files in the projekte folder for a quick start.
You actually should choose an order of filter that lines up phase best. The driver dictates the filter. You follow? I'd have thought first order on a ribbon was too lightweight.
Certainly negative polarity on mids is common enough.
SEAS Kit 503
Do a bit of simming with similar drivers:
Software | Visaton
I am sure Visaton do a planar tweeter which you can put in one of these.
3 Wege – Boxsim Projektdatenbank
Ribbon Tweeters | Visaton
You can put those files in the projekte folder for a quick start.
You actually should choose an order of filter that lines up phase best. The driver dictates the filter. You follow? I'd have thought first order on a ribbon was too lightweight.
Hello, tanks for your information. As I say, in this link you can see the information about my louspeakers and their filter based in the ATS from Troels G.
ESS AMT tweeter. Help for correct use
BR
Toni
ESS AMT tweeter. Help for correct use
BR
Toni
This is way too big a project for my taste or limited time...
After 8 pages of fiddling about, with some good help by the look, if you still aren't happy, it is time to give up.
The theory says if you swap tweeters you try to replicate the slopes to keep integration and phase alignment:
Well, not much to go on here:
Jenzen-ATS
Looks second order 12dB slope to me. But no idea what the other drivers are doing really.
After 8 pages of fiddling about, with some good help by the look, if you still aren't happy, it is time to give up.
The theory says if you swap tweeters you try to replicate the slopes to keep integration and phase alignment:
Well, not much to go on here:
Jenzen-ATS
Looks second order 12dB slope to me. But no idea what the other drivers are doing really.