Hey all,
I'm going to build a new set of foil speaker cables very soon, using Mundorf 44mm copper foil. Rather than some of the more common methods of building the cables (which I've tried), I'm going to do something a bit different: I want to coat the foils with a thin-as-possible coating to prevent oxidizing, and also to minimize the dielectric. Then the foils will be sheathed in cotton sleeving, followed by a layer of PET flex, for the added bit of rigidity and protection. The foils will be sheathed separately, but loosely banded together every couple of feet I suppose.
Anyway, I've thought of car wax, nitrocellulose lacquer, or spray shellac, but not sure if anyone has knowledge or has tried any of these or something else? The wax has me the most curious, but I'm just not sure if it's permeable to oxygen.
Any thoughts?
I'm going to build a new set of foil speaker cables very soon, using Mundorf 44mm copper foil. Rather than some of the more common methods of building the cables (which I've tried), I'm going to do something a bit different: I want to coat the foils with a thin-as-possible coating to prevent oxidizing, and also to minimize the dielectric. Then the foils will be sheathed in cotton sleeving, followed by a layer of PET flex, for the added bit of rigidity and protection. The foils will be sheathed separately, but loosely banded together every couple of feet I suppose.
Anyway, I've thought of car wax, nitrocellulose lacquer, or spray shellac, but not sure if anyone has knowledge or has tried any of these or something else? The wax has me the most curious, but I'm just not sure if it's permeable to oxygen.
Any thoughts?
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I’m simply trying to protect the copper from oxidizing with minimal material, ie as opposed to PTFE or PP tape.
I understand and have built foils this way. I’m trying something different. The foils will end up a few mm apart, this is another way to do it and has been successfully done. I know the common approach is to minimize inductance as much as possible but there seems to be more to it. I coukd go on and cite quotes, anecdotes, and links to highly regarded commercial designs but let’s not, it’s not my intention to start a cable theory thread and debate.
The “foils stacked together” method was I believe started by Allen Wright years ago, and since then many cable makers have been experimenting ever way possible. I’ve spoken with a few guys with waaayy more knowledge and experience in the business and their counter arguments were convincing, as well as reviews and subjective feedback.
Last edited:
I’ve done a lot of fabrication for different audio projects over the years in wood, aluminum, brass, copper etc.
I always preferred a minimalist approach for a protective finish on my projects.
I used to buy what they they marketed as “Butcher’s Wax”. Last time I went looking for it I found the same type of product marketed by Rustoleum.
Rub on a thin layer with a damp cloth. Let it dry for a little while and then buff it to a shine of your liking….or don’t
It has done an excellent job of protecting surfaces that can oxidize over time.
I did a phono amp project almost ten years ago where I lined the inside of the wooden “cheeks” of the cabinet with copper foil.
The copper is still free from any oxidation and has its original shine.
I always preferred a minimalist approach for a protective finish on my projects.
I used to buy what they they marketed as “Butcher’s Wax”. Last time I went looking for it I found the same type of product marketed by Rustoleum.
Rub on a thin layer with a damp cloth. Let it dry for a little while and then buff it to a shine of your liking….or don’t
It has done an excellent job of protecting surfaces that can oxidize over time.
I did a phono amp project almost ten years ago where I lined the inside of the wooden “cheeks” of the cabinet with copper foil.
The copper is still free from any oxidation and has its original shine.
Attachments
Thank you Chromenuts! I've been leaning toward wax, and your experience is very helpful. I'm considering using Renaissance Wax, a product used by a lot of conservatory people I guess. I'll check my local hardware store and see what they have. Another interesting option is Nufinish, I used to use it on my cars, and just found a bottle on my shelf! It leaves a very thin polymer film, in place of wax. But you've given me enough assurance that wax will work, thank you.
Which will also hugely increase capacitance.
Which is much worse, from the amplifier point of view.
I shudder at thinking about two parallel 44mm foils, a few meters long, side by side.
The worse the closer they are.
I guess the question referred to what are you trying to achieve, acoustically or electrically with that cable construction.
Is there any advantage over zip cord?
I fear you will build an amp-killer cable.
Lots of horror stories about weird speaker cables around.
I dunno - these are both very highly regarded cables, for starters. I also have been given the design by another cable maker who graciously answered my questions and I've never seen any concerns about this way of doing foils. I've seen separated foils many times, it's just a lower capacitance, slightly higher inductance result. There's plenty of wire cables that have values all over the place. I'm not worried.
Anhydrous lanolin, generally sold for nipples. You can use it alone or melt it together with beeswax and mineral oil, super slow microwave with stirring. It turns into lip balm sort of stuff. Maybe just the wax and lanolin too, idk.
A New Zealander I see 😊. That sounds like an excellent balm, tansand.
Nevermind capacitance--- my experience with minimal insulation on speaker amplifiers is total replacement of costly transistors after an accidental short. Lanolin sounds like begging for an expensive blow-up. Poly-varnish may be better but it chips off wood projects, and maybe worse on slick copper.
Yes, much of my blow-up experience is from the dawn of power transistors and amp protection got better later (but, I see, not on all designs...).
Yes, much of my blow-up experience is from the dawn of power transistors and amp protection got better later (but, I see, not on all designs...).
I may have read it wrong, but I thought there was going to be a cotton sleeve over the bare wire and then plastic insulation on top of that (??). I got the recipe as a rust protectant for carbon steel kitchen knives, they said the vikings had some sheaths for their swords lined with sheep skin/fur for the lanolin. I rarely use the knives because stainless is more practical, but I haven't had any problems. I remember they said that lanolin is very 'polar' so it sticks and stays on well. Seems like it!
Also, it cracks me up the wires are called 'Fidelium'. 🤠
Also, it cracks me up the wires are called 'Fidelium'. 🤠
Not sure how electrons would flow better along a 18AWG equivalent copper foil than a round section or multi strand real 18AWG, but hey, it´s your time and money.
Applies to all other AWG equivalent mentioned in Mundorf page.
Somewhat turned off by comments there such as:
Marketing 101
Sorry: "Marketicorum CI" 😉
Applies to all other AWG equivalent mentioned in Mundorf page.
Somewhat turned off by comments there such as:
- tonal virtues of OFC Copper foil
- clarity and precision
- authenticity
- particularly distinguished
- harmoniously dynamic vitality
- detailed performance.
- multifaceted and all-musical beauty
- oh well.
Greek and Latin having been "the Language of Culture" for over 2000 years in our Civiization, any name/brand even marginally suggesting them brings mucho Mojo by association.
Marketing 101
Sorry: "Marketicorum CI" 😉
Last edited:
Mansion Polish is a brand of floor wax sold here.
May be suitable. No ties to seller, I am in India, similar products may be sold in your country.
Even electrical insulation varnish products may work.
There were paper insulated jelly filled telephone cables here, individual strands insulated with paper, and the whole covered with petroleum jelly (or Vaseline without the scent) inside the cable jacket. It is obsolete now IIRC.
As for foil or Litz wire speaker cables, add one more to the crackpot threads, most are bovine excrement.
The fun starts at the terminations, and the surface ratios can be a source of amusement.
If you have excess time, read the threads about silly money wires here, plenty of those over the years.
If you have excess money, put it away for old age, or do some charitable spending.
Maybe you could ask the moderators to move the thread to the 'Lounge' section.
May be suitable. No ties to seller, I am in India, similar products may be sold in your country.
Even electrical insulation varnish products may work.
There were paper insulated jelly filled telephone cables here, individual strands insulated with paper, and the whole covered with petroleum jelly (or Vaseline without the scent) inside the cable jacket. It is obsolete now IIRC.
As for foil or Litz wire speaker cables, add one more to the crackpot threads, most are bovine excrement.
The fun starts at the terminations, and the surface ratios can be a source of amusement.
If you have excess time, read the threads about silly money wires here, plenty of those over the years.
If you have excess money, put it away for old age, or do some charitable spending.
Maybe you could ask the moderators to move the thread to the 'Lounge' section.
Last edited:
Grease-filled cable is still a standard for underground telephone runs. But it needs something solid too. Bell made acres of paper for cable insulation, had to be very special because common paper rots metals. Polyethylene would be the thing today, but far too commonplace for fancy audio. PE is 99% waterproof but grease-jelly stuffing helps keep water out.
Grease filled waterproof 20 pair dropwire..
12 pair Burial Underground PE89 rated telephone cable
How to clean that Icky-pick gel off direct burial wire and cable
Grease filled waterproof 20 pair dropwire..
12 pair Burial Underground PE89 rated telephone cable
How to clean that Icky-pick gel off direct burial wire and cable
New cables here are XLPE, but new trend is fiber to home...cable, internet and phone.
Anyway there was anither poster here who had Cat 6 cable in excess, wanted to make speaker cables from it.
Maybe we should get them to meet, and design something?
Keep them occupied...
Anyway there was anither poster here who had Cat 6 cable in excess, wanted to make speaker cables from it.
Maybe we should get them to meet, and design something?
Keep them occupied...
"Highly regarded cables", I like that phrase. Almost as funny as "dry aged water".