Here's a pretty inflammatory statement from a respected loudspeaker designer - any comments will be welcomed!
http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/91_files/vol9_iss1.pdf
http://www.bryston.ca/newsletters/91_files/vol9_iss1.pdf
i can only assume there have been significant improvements since april of '05, when that was written...
"A good engineer should always recognize when a design direction or technology path is wrong."
So does that mean he's not a very good engineer then? 😉
So does that mean he's not a very good engineer then? 😉
apparently so...
if you read in the first paragraph, it said he was with sony. this was about the time sony started doing digital amps in its ES line of receivers. and shortly thereafter, the digital amp market really took off.
sounds like its "just some guy" that was in the anti-class D camp. everyone misses the boat.
if you read in the first paragraph, it said he was with sony. this was about the time sony started doing digital amps in its ES line of receivers. and shortly thereafter, the digital amp market really took off.
sounds like its "just some guy" that was in the anti-class D camp. everyone misses the boat.
I think that Engineers who are unable to build an excellent sounding Class-D amplifiers, thereby tend to make these type of negative statements...which clearly shows there INCAPABILITY TOWARDS INNOVATIVE EXCELLENCE....
K a n w a r
K a n w a r
After having built my own Class-D designs during nearly 3 years and having also tested some commercial Class-D modules, all I can say is that I won't return to class A or AB.
I agree that this technology is challenging, but who said it was going to be easy?
There is always people that show their own limitations by discouraging others to try what they are unable to do.
I agree that this technology is challenging, but who said it was going to be easy?
There is always people that show their own limitations by discouraging others to try what they are unable to do.
His understanding is made obvious by almost every single, selectively polar, remark he made regarding the technology as a whole.
"We fear that which we do not understand". He doesn't.
Please, let's not ignore the other aspect here, Bryston's motivation to reprint that. Can you smell the fear? Be very afraid!
I think the only real questions here are how long it will take them to come up with their own twist of a class d amp that's been patented many years ago, or if they'll simply concede and use someone else's modules, or, go out of business.
As far as Dan, you have to find some humor in that it sounds like he's trying real hard to come up with a bad "sub use only" class d amp....that's far too ironic to fully appreciate.
"We fear that which we do not understand". He doesn't.
Please, let's not ignore the other aspect here, Bryston's motivation to reprint that. Can you smell the fear? Be very afraid!
I think the only real questions here are how long it will take them to come up with their own twist of a class d amp that's been patented many years ago, or if they'll simply concede and use someone else's modules, or, go out of business.
As far as Dan, you have to find some humor in that it sounds like he's trying real hard to come up with a bad "sub use only" class d amp....that's far too ironic to fully appreciate.
An audiophile friend of mine said to me one day that "Audio engineers" are typically a "lower grade" of EE. I didn't quite believe in his statement, because it's not that easy to compensate for cross-over distortion. Dr. Bruce Candy did revolutionize linear amps with his ultralow distortion Halcro amps. He also applied for a cryptic patent on his class-D amps, which use gigahertz transistors to minimize distortion. I personally don't understand how his delay circuit works to do that. He did inspire me to look into design of distortion-free power amps. However the law of diminishing return and niche market prevented their commercialization. High price => low volume. I wonder about Halcro's sales volume.
In most disciplines, there will always be something better that comes along. To say progress can be stopped, as Dan did, is foolish. He didn't seem to see the obvious problem of heat generation of Bryston amps. Bah, humbug!
In most disciplines, there will always be something better that comes along. To say progress can be stopped, as Dan did, is foolish. He didn't seem to see the obvious problem of heat generation of Bryston amps. Bah, humbug!
Hi Koolkid,
I've seen Bruce Candy's patent on class D amps. I actually found it to be one of the least cryptic patents. What delay circuit do you speak of, have you a reference handy?
For what his amps seem to be sold for I dont' imagine he needs to sell very many.
Cheers,
Chris
I've seen Bruce Candy's patent on class D amps. I actually found it to be one of the least cryptic patents. What delay circuit do you speak of, have you a reference handy?
For what his amps seem to be sold for I dont' imagine he needs to sell very many.
Cheers,
Chris
There will always be demand for conventional amps like Bryston et al. But their sales figures will fall.
The best way to "strike back" would indeed be investing into the development of own class-d amps instead of bashing it.
Although I already see the opening of the advertisment for their fist class-d amp generation: "For decades engineers were striving to build high-quality class-d amps. But this was impossible until recently when we developed our revolutionary xyz amp technology ......... " 😉 🙄
Rergards
Charles
He also utters the expression "digital amp" quite often which is the preferred marketing BS designation for calss-d amps.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
It's always refreshing to hear a one sided point of view on a subject. Shows the depth and thought process of the individual. 😉
GB Shaw had aptly remarked...
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world (Transistors, tubes, Class A, AB?) ; the unreasonable one (Class D protagonists ?) persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
If I recall correctly, Bryston had also trashed E-I core transformers in favour of Toroidals in an article a few years ago.
As a sheer coincidence, my new DIY Mono block design utilises two of the very technologies which Bryston seems to hate from the core of their heart - a Modified UcD400AD utilising E-I core power transformers! I'm tempted to seek out Bryston Amps in Singapore for a Death Match!
GB Shaw had aptly remarked...
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world (Transistors, tubes, Class A, AB?) ; the unreasonable one (Class D protagonists ?) persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
If I recall correctly, Bryston had also trashed E-I core transformers in favour of Toroidals in an article a few years ago.
As a sheer coincidence, my new DIY Mono block design utilises two of the very technologies which Bryston seems to hate from the core of their heart - a Modified UcD400AD utilising E-I core power transformers! I'm tempted to seek out Bryston Amps in Singapore for a Death Match!
class d is the best.such high effeciency,unthinkable for any other class.
no matter what a particular person says(views enmating from failure to understand such a wonderful class) , class d is the best.
no matter what a particular person says(views enmating from failure to understand such a wonderful class) , class d is the best.
Let me share an experience with all of you that took place this weekend and illustrates very well the fact that many still think Class-D is digital by nature and hence must be inferior to a pure analog amplifier.
I was asked by the organisation of the DDIY2006 (Dutch DIY 2006) to speak at their DIY conference on the topic of Class-D amplifiers. Obviously I accepted their invitation as it is a topic that interests me very much. To gauge the level of understanding with my prospective audience I polled the Dutch audio forums asking for feedback on what people would like me to address.
About 90% of the people that responded wanted to learn more about these 'digital' amplifiers and how these 'digital' amplifiers work and whether they offer any benefits. Hence the first bullet-point on my first sheet was simply the line 'Class-D amplifiers are analog by default' (in Dutch).
The next 45-mins I explained the requirements for a class-D amp (comparator, powerstage, output filter, etc.) and why analog class-D amplifiers are not much different from traditional amps. I spiced up (literally) my presentation by running a number of live simulations with LTspice addressing some of the issues of a an all-digital approach (no feedback, etc.) and several popular analog concepts (hys. mod., phase shift mod. and the UcD mod.).
Judging from the questions that resulted after pulling the last slide from view it was obvious that for the people in the audience one thing was clear, the 'D' in Class-D does not signify 'Digital' but rather a novel approach to building amplifiers.
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
I was asked by the organisation of the DDIY2006 (Dutch DIY 2006) to speak at their DIY conference on the topic of Class-D amplifiers. Obviously I accepted their invitation as it is a topic that interests me very much. To gauge the level of understanding with my prospective audience I polled the Dutch audio forums asking for feedback on what people would like me to address.
About 90% of the people that responded wanted to learn more about these 'digital' amplifiers and how these 'digital' amplifiers work and whether they offer any benefits. Hence the first bullet-point on my first sheet was simply the line 'Class-D amplifiers are analog by default' (in Dutch).
The next 45-mins I explained the requirements for a class-D amp (comparator, powerstage, output filter, etc.) and why analog class-D amplifiers are not much different from traditional amps. I spiced up (literally) my presentation by running a number of live simulations with LTspice addressing some of the issues of a an all-digital approach (no feedback, etc.) and several popular analog concepts (hys. mod., phase shift mod. and the UcD mod.).
Judging from the questions that resulted after pulling the last slide from view it was obvious that for the people in the audience one thing was clear, the 'D' in Class-D does not signify 'Digital' but rather a novel approach to building amplifiers.
Best regards,
Sander Sassen
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
Sander:
I enjoyed the tale of your experience at DIY2006. You point up a recurring bias which I, too, have experienced regarding "digital" amps.
Having implemented an ICEpower amp (dual 250ASP's) which I've demoed a few times at shootouts with other Class D amps, I've never been able to get across the concept that almost all Class D amps are analog. This, of course, is compounded by those in the audio print industry who continue to refer to them as "digital", almost in a negative way.
(BTW, I've appreciated the NuForce sagas.
)
Regards,
Larry Welsh
I enjoyed the tale of your experience at DIY2006. You point up a recurring bias which I, too, have experienced regarding "digital" amps.
Having implemented an ICEpower amp (dual 250ASP's) which I've demoed a few times at shootouts with other Class D amps, I've never been able to get across the concept that almost all Class D amps are analog. This, of course, is compounded by those in the audio print industry who continue to refer to them as "digital", almost in a negative way.
(BTW, I've appreciated the NuForce sagas.
)Regards,
Larry Welsh
I don't follow all the science, but if my £28 T-amp supplied by a £14 SMPS block and a bit of old mains flex to the speakers sounds better than my old (and considerably more expensive) "classic" A/B system, then I'm all for this progress stuff. 😀
And people here say I can improve on the stock quality with a few simple mods...
And people here say I can improve on the stock quality with a few simple mods...
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