As the title says, my first experience and wondering is this is normal.
This is an ebay amp, from China, so I wasn't expecting greatness, but so far the sound from it is pretty good to my old ears. Totally silent with not signal input too.
My questions,
1, Should the output filter coil get hot? After about 10 minutes of listening at fairly low volume, I'm sure less than 10 watts, the coil was around 130 degrees F. Is that normal or will the coil eventually fail, short or would it be ok?
2, I see about a 1 volt p-p sine wave across the speaker terminals, even with nothing playing. It is at the the switching frequency (i think 500khz), so way higher frequency than the speaker can produce and any normal human could hear, but would this cause unnecessary heating in the speaker voice coils?
3, It has a built in speaker protection relay but it doesn't turn off immediately when power is turned off, it continues to produce sound until the caps discharge a bit, then turns off. Sounds like poor design to me, but what do the experts think? It does delay turn on about 3 or 4 seconds after power applied, so that part is ok.
Thanks.
Glen.
This is an ebay amp, from China, so I wasn't expecting greatness, but so far the sound from it is pretty good to my old ears. Totally silent with not signal input too.
My questions,
1, Should the output filter coil get hot? After about 10 minutes of listening at fairly low volume, I'm sure less than 10 watts, the coil was around 130 degrees F. Is that normal or will the coil eventually fail, short or would it be ok?
2, I see about a 1 volt p-p sine wave across the speaker terminals, even with nothing playing. It is at the the switching frequency (i think 500khz), so way higher frequency than the speaker can produce and any normal human could hear, but would this cause unnecessary heating in the speaker voice coils?
3, It has a built in speaker protection relay but it doesn't turn off immediately when power is turned off, it continues to produce sound until the caps discharge a bit, then turns off. Sounds like poor design to me, but what do the experts think? It does delay turn on about 3 or 4 seconds after power applied, so that part is ok.
Thanks.
Glen.
I would guess that the coil looks like this, and that Vrail is higher than +-40Vdc
https://www.icecomponents.com/fixed-inductors/1d17a-series
.... then yes, they heat and are too small for the desired power.
Use T106-2 cores instead
..... looking forward to seeing the amp as I'm guessing completely 😀
https://www.icecomponents.com/fixed-inductors/1d17a-series
.... then yes, they heat and are too small for the desired power.
Use T106-2 cores instead
..... looking forward to seeing the amp as I'm guessing completely 😀
Ideally, the choke must not get hotter than the MOSFETs, but one needs to see some switching waveforms before concluding if there's any core saturation. If the filter values are correctly chosen for 20kHz,, a switching residual at 500kHz should have at least 40dB attenuation at the filter output. 1Vpp is acceptable if the amplifier is running off a 100V supply or higher.
Yes, the -2 mix (red) from Micrometals / Arnold is the correct material for Class-D filtering. No (external) gap required. T106, T130 etc. would do well.
Yes, the -2 mix (red) from Micrometals / Arnold is the correct material for Class-D filtering. No (external) gap required. T106, T130 etc. would do well.
Here is the link to the ebay item.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4038423778...rentrq:0752aaa41840acf3822522c0fffda478|iid:1
And I'll restate, I'm not expecting the rated 1000 watts. If I could get a clean 400 or so, I'd be totally satisfied.
And to further update. I bought two of them. One failed 3 seconds in, loud pop, hum, smoking voice coil in my test speaker (no worries on losing that speaker, it was cheap-o headed for trash). But that does tell me that the speaker protection doesn't cut out quicly enough when there is DC present on the output. After running the other one for 20 minutes or so, I felt safe and connected it to a good speaker, and I am totally happy with the sound. But that lack of speaker protection has me a bit concerned.
Anyone have any real world experience with these amps?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4038423778...rentrq:0752aaa41840acf3822522c0fffda478|iid:1
And I'll restate, I'm not expecting the rated 1000 watts. If I could get a clean 400 or so, I'd be totally satisfied.
And to further update. I bought two of them. One failed 3 seconds in, loud pop, hum, smoking voice coil in my test speaker (no worries on losing that speaker, it was cheap-o headed for trash). But that does tell me that the speaker protection doesn't cut out quicly enough when there is DC present on the output. After running the other one for 20 minutes or so, I felt safe and connected it to a good speaker, and I am totally happy with the sound. But that lack of speaker protection has me a bit concerned.
Anyone have any real world experience with these amps?
Rod Elliott has good advice on speaker protection.
https://sound-au.com/project227.htm
1000W capable amplifier is serious stuff.
https://sound-au.com/project227.htm
1000W capable amplifier is serious stuff.
Seems like a crap implementation to me. 3 sek!!!
Seem to be a IRS2092 based amp, which can be excellent. It features a shot down pin SD which can be used for protection, ensuring e.g. no dc on output before start up. See IRAUDAMP7 and datasheets etc for more info. I do not like the two fuses leading to the rails of the amp. It’s false protection as the chip already have a over current protection build in. If for one reason or another one fuse blows, the amp can not work properly and it will almost for sure go up in smoke. You would want both fuss to blow at exact same time to work as protection, and that will never happen. Why does the amp use a relay on the output? Tell me thay had problem with loud pop on startup or shut down. Again using the SD pin you can avoid this or at least really minimize it. Again the output coil is way too small for 1000W. Nothing wron with the overall concept using irs2092 plus dedicated smps, but the implementation does not seem to be good and your 3 sec test seem to show it. I would also be afraid to use it on my best speakers.
Seem to be a IRS2092 based amp, which can be excellent. It features a shot down pin SD which can be used for protection, ensuring e.g. no dc on output before start up. See IRAUDAMP7 and datasheets etc for more info. I do not like the two fuses leading to the rails of the amp. It’s false protection as the chip already have a over current protection build in. If for one reason or another one fuse blows, the amp can not work properly and it will almost for sure go up in smoke. You would want both fuss to blow at exact same time to work as protection, and that will never happen. Why does the amp use a relay on the output? Tell me thay had problem with loud pop on startup or shut down. Again using the SD pin you can avoid this or at least really minimize it. Again the output coil is way too small for 1000W. Nothing wron with the overall concept using irs2092 plus dedicated smps, but the implementation does not seem to be good and your 3 sec test seem to show it. I would also be afraid to use it on my best speakers.
Ps that it fails afte 3 sec tells me that the startup of the self oscillating amp was not successful. There can be numerous causes for this. Two importnt things need to be in place though. A low enough resistor from rail plus to the bootstrap cap to ensure it is charged during power on, and a delay mechanism at power on to wait for the bootstrap cap to be charged, normally done by employing a under voltage protection.
Warning sign is the picture showing which component "easily break and may be replaced"... you did a mistake going for that absolute highest power / dollar you could find. This means everything on this one is maximised - not good and potentially dangerous.
If you knew you would only use 10W max you should have bought a high quality 50..100W instead from a reputable company like Hypex or B&O etc. Better SQ and less prone to burn itself up or start a fire... I would never leave this switched on and leave the house...
Live and learn...
//
If you knew you would only use 10W max you should have bought a high quality 50..100W instead from a reputable company like Hypex or B&O etc. Better SQ and less prone to burn itself up or start a fire... I would never leave this switched on and leave the house...
Live and learn...
//
Thanks everyone for all the info. I sent the blown amp back for refund. Not sure what I'll do with the other one. Don't trust it.
So now I have another dilemma. I now have 3 icepower amps. 1000ASP, 500A and 1000A, all for free.. I know the 1000ASP and 500A work and sound great. Haven't tested the 1000a since it is bandwidth limited to 3k. And a bit of back story as to why I bought the others. I have a Proton D-1200 that I want to replace the innards with newer amps. The 1200 works but the transformers have a mechanical hum that I can't cure. And given it's age and possible failure and non availably of the large filter caps, why not update it to class D but still use those gorgeous meters.
So, would you add a second 1000ASP at $400, or a second 500ASP at a bit less?
Or something else. Those icepower modules were removed from a large sound system had some crossover issues., but the amps look brand new,
I plan to breadboard the meter circuits from the Proton and add those back in, and replace the fuse type lamps with LEDs.
Any advice?
So now I have another dilemma. I now have 3 icepower amps. 1000ASP, 500A and 1000A, all for free.. I know the 1000ASP and 500A work and sound great. Haven't tested the 1000a since it is bandwidth limited to 3k. And a bit of back story as to why I bought the others. I have a Proton D-1200 that I want to replace the innards with newer amps. The 1200 works but the transformers have a mechanical hum that I can't cure. And given it's age and possible failure and non availably of the large filter caps, why not update it to class D but still use those gorgeous meters.
So, would you add a second 1000ASP at $400, or a second 500ASP at a bit less?
Or something else. Those icepower modules were removed from a large sound system had some crossover issues., but the amps look brand new,
I plan to breadboard the meter circuits from the Proton and add those back in, and replace the fuse type lamps with LEDs.
Any advice?
Since no one commented, I decided to go with 2 x 1000ASPs. Second one should arrive soon. Now, though I've hit another hurdle.
Thought I would use the TA7318P meter driver and circuit from the proton, but I wanted to keep the two amps totally separate, so trying to find a source for that chip. None of the sources I checked carries it, digikey, mouser, ceitron... I see several boards on ebay and amazon that are supposedly using that chip, but then reviews say it isn't a real 7318 and some say it failed upon power up. Anyone have a legit source for that chip, or an alternative that would work. Thanks.
Thought I would use the TA7318P meter driver and circuit from the proton, but I wanted to keep the two amps totally separate, so trying to find a source for that chip. None of the sources I checked carries it, digikey, mouser, ceitron... I see several boards on ebay and amazon that are supposedly using that chip, but then reviews say it isn't a real 7318 and some say it failed upon power up. Anyone have a legit source for that chip, or an alternative that would work. Thanks.