There has been quite a lot said on these forums about the Ciare 250 10 inch driver and I have recently purchased a pair myself.
I thought that it may be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the Ciare, so that all information about it can be collected together.
I have just got my pair into baffles and am now using them in place of the modified Goodmans 201's. At present, I would say that I prefer the 201's so my question is, how long do the take to break in and how much improvement can I expect?
I thought that it may be a good idea to have a thread dedicated to the Ciare, so that all information about it can be collected together.
I have just got my pair into baffles and am now using them in place of the modified Goodmans 201's. At present, I would say that I prefer the 201's so my question is, how long do the take to break in and how much improvement can I expect?
Hi Nuuk,
the CH 250 takes quite a long time to break in.
Especially the reproduction of high frequencies improve over time.
I use the CH's heavily modified in an open baffle.
The modifications are:
- dustcap removed
- neodym magnet 30x15 mm placed on top of the pole piece (that was tricky)
- damar on cone and whizzer
- two cuts in the cone (sealed with silicone rubber)
I might post some pictures later....
the CH 250 takes quite a long time to break in.
Especially the reproduction of high frequencies improve over time.
I use the CH's heavily modified in an open baffle.
The modifications are:
- dustcap removed
- neodym magnet 30x15 mm placed on top of the pole piece (that was tricky)
- damar on cone and whizzer
- two cuts in the cone (sealed with silicone rubber)
I might post some pictures later....
Thanks Knorke, they seem like they will need quite a bit of time to break in so I'll have to vbe patient. My 201's took quite a time after they were re-built but the wait was worthwhile! 
Interesting modifications! What do the two cuts sealed with silicon rubber actually do?
And yes, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would like to see the pictures!
Interesting modifications! What do the two cuts sealed with silicon rubber actually do?
And yes, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would like to see the pictures!
Have a look at Norbert´s project:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22976
http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=12374
(for the picture)
greets & loads of fun with the driver (just heard it recently)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=22976
http://www.audiodiskussion.de/foren/fullrange/msg.php?idx=12374
(for the picture)
greets & loads of fun with the driver (just heard it recently)
Hi,
the dimensions of my dipole are 120x74 cm ...
The two cuts damp two resonances of the cone (inspired by scan speak). After cutting the cone the resonances were completly gone but the cone buzzed at lower frequencies. So I decided to seal them with a soft material.
I will post tomorrow some pictures and measurements....
the dimensions of my dipole are 120x74 cm ...
The two cuts damp two resonances of the cone (inspired by scan speak). After cutting the cone the resonances were completly gone but the cone buzzed at lower frequencies. So I decided to seal them with a soft material.
I will post tomorrow some pictures and measurements....
CH250 with extra magnets
Knorke,
Thanks for your insightful posts.
I think Ciare also sells versions of the CH250 with 1 or 2 additional magnets (at the rear). Have you tried or listen to these. I am curious to know what the additional magnet on the pole piece brings to your speakers.
Also, if you compare the cuts, additional magnets, removal of dust cap and application of DAMAR (could you be more specific on where and how thick DAMAR is applied), can you please rank them in terms of improvements.
Finally, how do you find the treble. Frequency response of the CH250 suggest rolloff after 16kHz. Do you find you need a supertweeter ?
Knorke,
Thanks for your insightful posts.
I think Ciare also sells versions of the CH250 with 1 or 2 additional magnets (at the rear). Have you tried or listen to these. I am curious to know what the additional magnet on the pole piece brings to your speakers.
Also, if you compare the cuts, additional magnets, removal of dust cap and application of DAMAR (could you be more specific on where and how thick DAMAR is applied), can you please rank them in terms of improvements.
Finally, how do you find the treble. Frequency response of the CH250 suggest rolloff after 16kHz. Do you find you need a supertweeter ?
Here are my recommandations:
1. The CH250 sounds good without any modification (they are difficult/impossible to reverse!)
2. An additional magnet helps alot. Even when you apply it on backside I recommend an neodymium one ( since the basket is weak and ferrit magnets are heavier)...
3. Damar doesn't hurt. I applied it once (on cone and whizzer) just that it looks wet. Damar needs time to cure (several days to weeks)!
4. Use birch plywood for the baffle! My prototype was build out of 15mm birch ply, what i have now is build from 25mm beech ply, this should be more stable but it sounds worse.
I'm not sure with the two cuts, it measures better but I can't really tell you if the sound improved. So I don't recommend it.
The CH250 definitely doesn't need a supertweeter.
1. The CH250 sounds good without any modification (they are difficult/impossible to reverse!)
2. An additional magnet helps alot. Even when you apply it on backside I recommend an neodymium one ( since the basket is weak and ferrit magnets are heavier)...
3. Damar doesn't hurt. I applied it once (on cone and whizzer) just that it looks wet. Damar needs time to cure (several days to weeks)!
4. Use birch plywood for the baffle! My prototype was build out of 15mm birch ply, what i have now is build from 25mm beech ply, this should be more stable but it sounds worse.
I'm not sure with the two cuts, it measures better but I can't really tell you if the sound improved. So I don't recommend it.
The CH250 definitely doesn't need a supertweeter.
I have the standard extra magnets that came with my Ciares but they will be supported due to the method I am using to 'hold my Ciares to the baffle. I have also been considering some strengthening of the basket.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
PS As these are more-or-less test baffles, I made provision for a tweeter but it is not connected.
CH250 with extra magnets
Knorke & Nuuk,
Could you please describe what the extra magnet brings to the sound of the CH250 - extra bass, better mid transparency, warmer sound, better balance etc.
Nuuk,
How much extra does the CH250 with extra magnets cost ? Also, have you tried the version with 2 extar magnets (3 in total)
Thanks again for your responses
Knorke & Nuuk,
Could you please describe what the extra magnet brings to the sound of the CH250 - extra bass, better mid transparency, warmer sound, better balance etc.
Nuuk,
How much extra does the CH250 with extra magnets cost ? Also, have you tried the version with 2 extar magnets (3 in total)
Thanks again for your responses
CH250 with extra magnets
Nuuk,
Thanks for the reply. Hey ! I actually thought that the CH250 with extra magnets had to be ordered that way (i.e. the double magnets came attached from the factory). I did not realise that you could order the extra magnets seperately. How do you attcah the extra magnets. Are the same size and type as the original magnet ?
Regards
Nuuk,
Thanks for the reply. Hey ! I actually thought that the CH250 with extra magnets had to be ordered that way (i.e. the double magnets came attached from the factory). I did not realise that you could order the extra magnets seperately. How do you attcah the extra magnets. Are the same size and type as the original magnet ?
Regards
Yes, they appear to be the same as the ones already fitted.
They just attach to the back of the driver. I am actually going to add a connector to the backplate so that I can bolt the magnets in place. And of course, the 'bar' that holds the drivers in place (on my baffles) will also hold the magnets on.
CH250 with extra magnets
Nuuk,
Thanks again for your reply. Where did you buy the extra magnets? I do not see them offered in the Ciare website.
And do let us know how they sound.
Will the extra magnets stay in place as is (without the extra bar across the magnets like you showed in your picture?). My speakers come with the standard CH250 and I do nota have the space to add the basr across the back of the magnets like you do.
Best Regards
Nuuk,
Thanks again for your reply. Where did you buy the extra magnets? I do not see them offered in the Ciare website.
And do let us know how they sound.
Will the extra magnets stay in place as is (without the extra bar across the magnets like you showed in your picture?). My speakers come with the standard CH250 and I do nota have the space to add the basr across the back of the magnets like you do.
Best Regards
The extra magnet(s) improves overall precision of the sound.
It also extends high frequency output.
You place the extra magnet with reversed polarity on the back of the drivers magnet, so that they will distract each other. When you come close the magnet will be attracted. The neodym magnets I used were so strong that they stay in place without additional support. Normal magnets are normally glued on .
The cost of the neodym magnets was about 6 euros per piece, I think they are much more stronger than ferrite types.
It also extends high frequency output.
You place the extra magnet with reversed polarity on the back of the drivers magnet, so that they will distract each other. When you come close the magnet will be attracted. The neodym magnets I used were so strong that they stay in place without additional support. Normal magnets are normally glued on .
The cost of the neodym magnets was about 6 euros per piece, I think they are much more stronger than ferrite types.
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