Hi all,
my name is Alex and I'm new in the forum.
I have an ongoing project for a ESP P3A amp and I'm now looking for a nice pair of full range drivers.
I read good reviews on several brands, among which:
- Markaudio aplair 12p
- Jordan jx92s (or whatever it's called these days)
- Visaton b200
- Ciare hx160 (and 201)
- Fostex 167e
I got the impression that, besides technical specifications which could be more or less similar for these drivers, different drivers and different speakers do sound different.
This is my first experience in choosing a driver and I'd like to ask your opinion on these (and others, if you can suggest other brands) drivers, which one(s) you think could be a nice choice and why.
NB: I still don't know which kind of speaker I'll build, it will probably depend on the driver.
NB2: I'm in Europe, if it matters.
Thanks all for your suggestions,
AC
my name is Alex and I'm new in the forum.
I have an ongoing project for a ESP P3A amp and I'm now looking for a nice pair of full range drivers.
I read good reviews on several brands, among which:
- Markaudio aplair 12p
- Jordan jx92s (or whatever it's called these days)
- Visaton b200
- Ciare hx160 (and 201)
- Fostex 167e
I got the impression that, besides technical specifications which could be more or less similar for these drivers, different drivers and different speakers do sound different.
This is my first experience in choosing a driver and I'd like to ask your opinion on these (and others, if you can suggest other brands) drivers, which one(s) you think could be a nice choice and why.
NB: I still don't know which kind of speaker I'll build, it will probably depend on the driver.
NB2: I'm in Europe, if it matters.
Thanks all for your suggestions,
AC
Hi Alex, welcome!
Visaton B200 has a lot of difficult issues (e.g., beaming hot treble on-axis) and I was never completely satisfied. In order to recommend a driver, it would be good to know what kind of music, what size room, etc.
Is it safe to say, with 100w of power, that you are looking to play loud?
Visaton B200 has a lot of difficult issues (e.g., beaming hot treble on-axis) and I was never completely satisfied. In order to recommend a driver, it would be good to know what kind of music, what size room, etc.
Is it safe to say, with 100w of power, that you are looking to play loud?
The A12p is definitely fabulous, it is one of the best fr drivers I have heard and i heard many including expensive ones. It will sound nicely dynamic and detailed even at your condo levels.
This being said, the Ciare 201 is very interesting as well. I have not heard it but I remember the very positive tests in one of the german speaker diy magazines. No whizzer yet still full extension and remarkably for an fr driver, good off axis performance. If i remember well they designed a new version of the famous Jericho horn for it. If you have the space then this is a very interesting way forward.
Edit: another interesting box for the 201 from a proven designer:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Solo-201_copy.pdf
This being said, the Ciare 201 is very interesting as well. I have not heard it but I remember the very positive tests in one of the german speaker diy magazines. No whizzer yet still full extension and remarkably for an fr driver, good off axis performance. If i remember well they designed a new version of the famous Jericho horn for it. If you have the space then this is a very interesting way forward.
Edit: another interesting box for the 201 from a proven designer:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Solo-201_copy.pdf
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I also would like to make a TWQT enclosure for a fullranger and always had found too many suggestions about what could be used but to few comparisons in order to understand what was giving best performance, in particular on the lower bass end of course..
I tried once with a ciare HX160, similar to the construction the manufacturer itself suggested, but maybe the 160 is being too "light" because of it's diameter and of the highish Fa value..?
tent:wq
I tried once with a ciare HX160, similar to the construction the manufacturer itself suggested, but maybe the 160 is being too "light" because of it's diameter and of the highish Fa value..?
tent:wq
I heard the Ciare a few months back -not bad at all, although distribution outside continental Europe is a bit mediocre.
The A12P is indeed an excellent driver, although I have a suspicion it won't be an especially happy match to your amplifier -some fiddling might be required. Either way though, certainly worth considering. Given what you're powering them with, the slightly smaller Alpair 10.2 (equivalent size to the Jordan units, currently being updated to 10.3 status) may be a better match.
Speaking of the Jordan's, the current 'official' unit is the Eikona, although I believe there's a waiting list since it's produced in very small batches & has only just been released. Haven't heard it, so can't comment on its performance, though those who have consider it to be a good upgrade on the original JX92S. The latter, slightly revised, is still made by EAD. I've always preferred the Alpair 10 units to the JX92S, fine driver though the latter is, but again, YMMV.
The B200 is a bit of an oddball; some swear by it, others swear at it. It's best suited to baffles or somewhat creative leaky sealed alignments. Not quite as efficient as the specs. suggest (so I gather), and it does have a narrowing power-response (i.e. it beams something chronic in the HF), so can be a bit limiting although well implemented it's decent.
The A12P is indeed an excellent driver, although I have a suspicion it won't be an especially happy match to your amplifier -some fiddling might be required. Either way though, certainly worth considering. Given what you're powering them with, the slightly smaller Alpair 10.2 (equivalent size to the Jordan units, currently being updated to 10.3 status) may be a better match.
Speaking of the Jordan's, the current 'official' unit is the Eikona, although I believe there's a waiting list since it's produced in very small batches & has only just been released. Haven't heard it, so can't comment on its performance, though those who have consider it to be a good upgrade on the original JX92S. The latter, slightly revised, is still made by EAD. I've always preferred the Alpair 10 units to the JX92S, fine driver though the latter is, but again, YMMV.
The B200 is a bit of an oddball; some swear by it, others swear at it. It's best suited to baffles or somewhat creative leaky sealed alignments. Not quite as efficient as the specs. suggest (so I gather), and it does have a narrowing power-response (i.e. it beams something chronic in the HF), so can be a bit limiting although well implemented it's decent.
TQWT as in 'conical horn?'
Most of the time you'll get equal or better performance from a simpler MLTL, except arguably when Q drops sufficiently for a given Fs region that the mass-corner is raised & you need slightly broader band gain (which a tapered pipe will provide). That said, you can often get similar with an untapered pipe too if you know what you're doing, so their use is mainly 'just because', until you get to boxes like the BIB pipe-horn, which is tuned to 1/2 wavelength of the target Fp (usually Fs, but doesn't have to be).
Grandemahatma,
I have a pair of Alpair 12 and listen to them everyday.
Had them earlier in small BR boxes designed by none other than Scottmoose, and now have them in a Bob Brines MLTL. Works well in both cabs, the larger cabinet having greater LF extension. If you search the forums, you will find that most A12 owners are happy with their speakers and using low watt tube amplification. The Alpair 12P excels in midrange, sound is detailed and smooth with good HF despite being a wizzerless 6.5" driver.
Now coming the Alpair 10.2 that Scott has suggested - this driver has greater LF extension vs the A12P despite having a smaller cone size (Mark Fenlon designed the driver this way). It gives up a few dB of efficiency vs the A12, but with your amp, SPL shoudl not be a problem. Scott has already pointed out that the Alp 10.2 is likely to match your amplifier better than the A12P. The Alp 10.2 works very nicely in BR boxes and MLTLs. The Alpair 10.3 (not yet released) is expected to improve on Alp 10.2 which is already an impressive driver.
I have a pair of Alpair 12 and listen to them everyday.
Had them earlier in small BR boxes designed by none other than Scottmoose, and now have them in a Bob Brines MLTL. Works well in both cabs, the larger cabinet having greater LF extension. If you search the forums, you will find that most A12 owners are happy with their speakers and using low watt tube amplification. The Alpair 12P excels in midrange, sound is detailed and smooth with good HF despite being a wizzerless 6.5" driver. Now coming the Alpair 10.2 that Scott has suggested - this driver has greater LF extension vs the A12P despite having a smaller cone size (Mark Fenlon designed the driver this way). It gives up a few dB of efficiency vs the A12, but with your amp, SPL shoudl not be a problem. Scott has already pointed out that the Alp 10.2 is likely to match your amplifier better than the A12P. The Alp 10.2 works very nicely in BR boxes and MLTLs. The Alpair 10.3 (not yet released) is expected to improve on Alp 10.2 which is already an impressive driver.
The Alpair 12P was designed from the outset with an eye toward lower power amplifiers (valve or solid state), primarily class A, with a moderate output impedance. Your ESP amplifier will be an excellent technical performer if I know Rod, but one likely better suited to somewhat more conventional speakers. You could probably get around this to an extent by using some series resistance, either with a resistor or high resistance speaker wire. I suspect you'd still be better off with the Alpair 10 though.
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