Change of plans, need help picking sub

saabracer23

Member
2006-05-12 11:17 pm
Hello all,

First off I would like to apologize to GM and bjorno for wasting their time in another thread about helping with my dayton reference sub. My wife caught ear of what I was planning and she said, "Dan I let you have your way all the time when it comes to audio stuff because it's your passion, but I promise you there will not be two BIG subwoofers in my living room!" So I talked to her about it a bit and she is very serious. I can have one though. So I am selling off the daytons and my behringer amp to fund the new sub since it has been made clear that I can find better than the HO series.

I would say my budget for amp and driver would be about 400-450 dollars and I am more than happy to buy used. It will be used for 50% music and 50% HT. I want it to cover the 20 hz range with ease and and rummble the floors. I also (if possible) would like it to be clean. I cannot go IB, just not possible. Probably no horn loading either, cannot be a 15 cubic foot box lol. I am interested in any 12", 15" or 18" woofer you guys can recommend.

I have given some thought to the Rythmik audio subs, I know they are very clean I am just worried about output. My room is 15x22 with vaulted ceilings. I have also looked into the tempestx (that is the new 15 " version right) but have heard it really only comes alive in the lower frequencies and is not very musical.

Any help would be great

Thank you
Dan
 

lousymusician

Member
Paid Member
2005-11-24 4:10 am
NorCal
IMO, forget about single 12" subs, they won't move enough air to rumble a room that size. One 15 may be enough, or may not depending on how much of an earthquake you need to make!

I just completed a 15" Rhythmik for a friend. It's only been playing for an hour this morning, it's just plopped in the middle of the living room (no boundry reinforcement), and I'm not using any eq (as I do on my own sub), but so far I think it's really good. According to my Radio Shack meter warble tones from a Stereophile test disc were solid down to 20 (as low as they go, and lower than I really hear as a note). It's very clean on music, and the cannon shots in the Master and Commander DVD DTS soundtrack had plenty of impact for me.

It runs a bit over your budget ($500 or $519 depending on xover slope for driver and amp), but I think the quality is there to justify it. I built the recommended down-firing sealed design out of 3/4" Baltic birch plywood. It measures 18 x 22-1/2 x 24". This box in MDF would weigh a ton!

If I wanted more tactile bass than this, I'd think about adding a couple of 'shakers' under the couch rather than more huge woofer boxes.
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
saabracer23 said:
My wife caught ear of what I was planning and she said, "Dan I let you have your way all the time when it comes to audio stuff because it's your passion, but I promise you there will not be two BIG subwoofers in my living room!" So I talked to her about it a bit and she is very serious. I can have one though. So I am selling off the daytons and my behringer amp to fund the new sub since it has been made clear that I can find better than the HO series.
Oh, the joys of no SO. I'm in the process of building 4 very large speakers, and 4 possibly 6 TH subs.

I second the TH idea. They take a lot of volume, but are usually tall and slender so may be able to be placed discretely in a corner and painted or veneered to match the decor, hence present less of a visual distraction.
 
saabracer23 said:

........but I promise you there will not be two BIG subwoofers in my living room!"

I can have one though.

OK, since you can only have one BIG one, here's a ~260 L tapped horn using just one of your Daytons. 125 dB peak/20 Hz/225 W corner loaded, not too shabby for a dinky little 12" with a little added inductance and some digital EQ or skip the inductor and just use a bit more EQ if required ;):

GM
 

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saabracer23

Member
2006-05-12 11:17 pm
Thanks for the info guys, GM would you mind talking to my wife and see if she would mind a 9 cubic foot box in the living room lol. That is impressive for the 12 though! I think I am going to have to go with a more conventional box like 5-6 cubic feet or so max. Thats why I mentioned a 15 or 18" because they could do well in a box that size and have more output than a 12. No mentions for an 18 yet, is it out of my price range? Would the 15" sealed rythmik have more output than the ported 12"?

Thanks again
Dan
 
Trust me, you don't want me to talk to her.

I'm not current with the various make/models of sub drivers, but big drivers in acoustically small vented cabs have vent issues as shown in the previous thread and sealed requires lots of Xmax and power that has its own SQ issues as well as added cost, so without spending any more time all I'll suggest is put both your Daytons in the largest sealed cab you can broker with the drivers in a bipole layout to minimize vibration and drive it with the most powerful amp your budget allows (preferably one without a boost ckt. or at least one that can be disabled).

GM
 
Your wife wants only ONE sub, she never mentioned how many DRIVERS the ONE sub has :D

You could take 4 12" 4 ohm subwoofers and put them in a large sealed box. A good cheap driver is a 12" Sony P5 121 or similar, they perform well in small boxes at 20hz. Wal-Mart sells them for only $68.00 a piece.

You can wire 4 subs series-parallel to still have 4 ohms as if you had one driver. Also having more drivers makes your power handing MUCH greater. 350W per sub * 4 = 1400W RMS @ 4 ohms.......................
 
Re: Re: Change of plans, need help picking sub

GM said:


OK, since you can only have one BIG one, here's a ~260 L tapped horn using just one of your Daytons. 125 dB peak/20 Hz/225 W corner loaded, not too shabby for a dinky little 12" with a little added inductance and some digital EQ or skip the inductor and just use a bit more EQ if required ;):

GM


At >6:1 compression, would the cone hold up? Is that another TH bonus?
 
Well, it's not quite that high since the driver is down the pipe a bit where it's bigger, reducing the CR to <5:1, but even then it's not as well defined AFAIK compared to a typical end loaded horn, so may be even less. Regardless, I imagine a typical roll surround will deform first in a TH same as a compression horn, but with no personal experience with THs it's just my SWAG based on end loaded Vs offset loaded TLs.

Anyway, unless you overdrive it down below its LF corner frequency without enough boundary gain I doubt it would be a problem in a HIFI/HT app.

GM
 

saabracer23

Member
2006-05-12 11:17 pm
Well I think that I have decided on the Rythmik ds1500. I talked to the owner a few days ago and I looked through Iikka's subwoofer tests and I think for my price point this is the best purchase I can make. I will start a thread with with the new build to show my progress. Will it effect the outcome in any way to make it a front firing sub? I don't want to lose any extension or output (especially the rumble in my couch!)

I will talk with him again when I am ready to order the kit, but I assume tc sounds is the build house he is using since the drivers are tc sound based drivers. If they are going out of buisness what happens if I blow the woofer?

Dan
 
TC Sounds uses pretty standard parts, depending on the driver you could likely get it re coned by another company.

If space is a real issue, and cost not as much, then try passive radiator enclosures. All the benefits of a ported box, but they are about the size of a sealed one...

One of these http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_21&products_id=36

And another 15" passive(high excursion is needed or you'll want a second PR) In a 3cuft box tuned to 30Hz has worked really well for me.

It works well of a Behringer EP1500, although don't get silly with the gains, try to keep it around 1kW.

The best part is how easy it is to tune...just add weights.

The hard part is finding passives...I used a dead 16OV2(thanks UPS for dropping is :p)