A fanless PC is as quiet as it can get 🙂 I would not use any PC with a fan for audio, unless absolutely necessary. But that's just my view.
What ports specifically do you need?
Yes, I will have to see if the fan ever comes on loud enough to hear over ambient, at least when playing music. If it does then I have purposely chosen a machine for which there are several fanless case options, and which are 'considerably' smaller than even the current PC's passive CPU cooler alone.
It is perhaps excessive to say that I 'need' better ports, ancient USB/network/drive speeds etc. could work, just would not be very pleasant. So I at least 'want' decent LAN and usb speeds for convenience - such as accessing or backing up larger local libraries, copying to/from external SSDs, the ability to run 4k-60hz dual monitors, and offering a couple of nvme m.2 slots. I learnt this kind of lesson several years ago when first getting a large but older and cheap NAS; it could take multiple days to back up the data via any network or local ports available, and often failed during such prolonged periods. That isn't necessary anymore, if I choose at least reasonably modern harware.
The NUC has a few 10gbps USBs, still only a 2.5 NIC but that is decent enough. It also has a couple of thunderbolt 4 ports which are very interesting for expansion and convenience - all sorts of things can be run from those, like 10gb nics, external nvme drives and so on. Many small machines have this kind of thing these days, except possibly the thunderbolt 3 or 4 in some cases, but even that has been around for years now. So it is a fairly simple/reasonable set of wishes, I think.
It is perhaps excessive to say that I 'need' better ports, ancient USB/network/drive speeds etc. could work, just would not be very pleasant. So I at least 'want' decent LAN and usb speeds for convenience - such as accessing or backing up larger local libraries, copying to/from external SSDs, the ability to run 4k-60hz dual monitors, and offering a couple of nvme m.2 slots. I learnt this kind of lesson several years ago when first getting a large but older and cheap NAS; it could take multiple days to back up the data via any network or local ports available, and often failed during such prolonged periods. That isn't necessary anymore, if I choose at least reasonably modern harware.
The NUC has a few 10gbps USBs, still only a 2.5 NIC but that is decent enough. It also has a couple of thunderbolt 4 ports which are very interesting for expansion and convenience - all sorts of things can be run from those, like 10gb nics, external nvme drives and so on. Many small machines have this kind of thing these days, except possibly the thunderbolt 3 or 4 in some cases, but even that has been around for years now. So it is a fairly simple/reasonable set of wishes, I think.
Anyway, the order has been re-placed with a different supplier, so hopefully they will deliver in a timely fashion.
Well it arrived. Sadly there is no mains power cord included (there is thankfully a PSU), so I can't test it immediately (sigh). So the fan noise will take a bit longer to discover, though I'm encouraged by Henrik's report; it seems likely that a passive case may not be necessary or at least not urgent.
The lead aside, I'm very pleased with it's first impressions. It seems quality stuff and (although I knew the measurements) it looks even smaller in reality than I'd actually imagined - even quite small compared to the HP/Dell/Lenovo equivalents that I'm familiar with. The core 3 version might have been a more practical decision, but there's no consequence in size and not much in heat for the chosen ultra-5 so all looks well.
Assuming no component failures, the spec should easily last me for the next several years for any general or media type use I might want to put it to, which is the aim. I bought a short nvme ssd for the smaller m.2 slot, which (assuming it is bootable) will be the system drive; I can then either put an existing normal/2280 SSD in the other nvme slot for data/media or consider a modest network storage option.
EDIT: little things like this make me disproportionately happy 🙂. My outgoing big/noisy/hot full PC isn't very old at all and yet at the time two m.2 slots were not common on modestly priced motherboards - and now here we are with two on a board not much bigger than a coaster. It would even take 96GB of DDR5 ram, though even a quarter of that would likely be overkill for me.
The lead aside, I'm very pleased with it's first impressions. It seems quality stuff and (although I knew the measurements) it looks even smaller in reality than I'd actually imagined - even quite small compared to the HP/Dell/Lenovo equivalents that I'm familiar with. The core 3 version might have been a more practical decision, but there's no consequence in size and not much in heat for the chosen ultra-5 so all looks well.
Assuming no component failures, the spec should easily last me for the next several years for any general or media type use I might want to put it to, which is the aim. I bought a short nvme ssd for the smaller m.2 slot, which (assuming it is bootable) will be the system drive; I can then either put an existing normal/2280 SSD in the other nvme slot for data/media or consider a modest network storage option.
EDIT: little things like this make me disproportionately happy 🙂. My outgoing big/noisy/hot full PC isn't very old at all and yet at the time two m.2 slots were not common on modestly priced motherboards - and now here we are with two on a board not much bigger than a coaster. It would even take 96GB of DDR5 ram, though even a quarter of that would likely be overkill for me.
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FWIW, my daily driver Windoze box is a Minisforum H99G with a Ryzen 7 5900HX CPU (45W TDP). The case measures about 8x8x2 inches, putting in the "mini PC" class. It sits on the desktop less than 3 feet from my ears and has a fan. It's only when Windoze decides to do some background updates that I notice the fan spool up, otherwise it is running so slowly that it is essentially but not 100% (obviously it can not be) silent in an otherwise completely silent environment. I have other mini PCs running speaker systems that are even more "silent" because they are outfitted with a CPU having 6-10W TDP and produce very little heat. They are also not located near my head, but over with the amplifiers and DACs.
IME the problem with a fan is that if it's not a powerful=noisy model like in servers, it will eventually either get noisy or get stuck. One of my embedded-linux audio devices has been running for many years in a kitchen above the kitchen desk, and if it had a fan, the kitchen greasy fumes would have it gotten stuck long time ago.
MAKES NOTE TO SELF: do not locate computer in greasy kitchen... 😉
I have to disagree with you @phofman. 99.9% of the time audio equipment will be located in a relatively clean environment. Modern 12V "silent" fans for computers are not like "dumb" server fans - rather speed is variable and monitored via a 4-wire connection, making a stall 100% correctable. They are built with quality bearings that last a long time, probably longer than the useful life of the mini PC. For the cheapest products, some manufacturers will use cheap fans and sure they may develop noise and other problems. Look for products that feature silent fans from reputable brands.
I have to disagree with you @phofman. 99.9% of the time audio equipment will be located in a relatively clean environment. Modern 12V "silent" fans for computers are not like "dumb" server fans - rather speed is variable and monitored via a 4-wire connection, making a stall 100% correctable. They are built with quality bearings that last a long time, probably longer than the useful life of the mini PC. For the cheapest products, some manufacturers will use cheap fans and sure they may develop noise and other problems. Look for products that feature silent fans from reputable brands.
Good for you. My experience with fans is different, unfortunately. Recently I had to replace a custom fan on a GPU from a reputable brand - it got noisy, the bearing died. Fortunately Aliexpress had the replacement piece (being not reputable anymore 🙂 ). Also a number of my notebooks (e.g. original IBM Thinkpads, before chinese Lenovo bought the brand) had to have their CPU fans replaced after a few years. The NUC and miniPCs fall into this category - tiny fans.
If I can avoid a fan, I always do so. But your experience may be different, I was not so fortunate 🙂
If I can avoid a fan, I always do so. But your experience may be different, I was not so fortunate 🙂
Well, it is an internet radio and CD player https://github.com/pavhofman/plabs-player/wiki/ , my mother-in-law has been using it every morning -> noon (mostly while cooking) for 7 years, not a single issue (knock knock 🙂 ). Those thin PC clients are nicely built to work (almost) forever.
Oh I have had my share of fan problems in the past. Up until the last couple of years or so, most were noisy but I think MFGs listened to feeback about this issue. For example I one bought a mini PC that looked like this one:
https://www.amazon.de/Windows-Computer-Ethernet-Business-Heimkino/dp/B0BCNMP3CX?th=1
After 1 week the fan started making noise and after 3 weeks I unplugged it and never used it again! But I have had good luck with many other mini PCs that were not as "cheap". It could just be that particular form factor uses very crappy fans. In my experience you must look for the "right" combination of a CPU or SoC that will not be creating too much heat output and a silent fan (you have to trust the MFG on that one). Or you can build up a system and choose a passive CPU cooler or brand name quiet fan from e.g. Noctua, etc. I have also done that in the past and was very happy with the result.
I have seen many positive posts from you about those thin clients, so this seems to be your go to solution that has proven to work well. No argument from me on that one.
Thank you, both. Yes IMO it is a situation with different options. One can go for fully passive cooling which is reliable and always silent.. but physically bigger for the same processing power and may lead to throttling and/or faster degredation of components which aren't coupled to the heatsink. Or one can go for 'mostly' silent in a smaller case, that just excercises the fans (to audible dB) during rare heavy loads - which requires judging (perhaps over-specifying) hardware to do what is required well within its thermal comfort zone.
Previously my preferred answer has been to go for a system that is basically capable of fully passive operation without significant harm. But then 'also' adding inaudible fan(s) just to come on and reduce throttling when needed and improve life for the rest of the motherboard (e.g when transcoding an entire media library to a different format). This approach has benefitted from bios/uefi with fan control/profile options, which even allows fans that can be fast and audible (when really/rarely necessary) to be either off or inadudible at all other times.
I have yet to judge this cute tiny NUC; a power cord is on the way, and then I will be able to test. It is a low TDP mobile-CPU machine with larger fan than many laptops, and I hear it has some fan-control bios/uefi options, too. So.. we will see; if it idles unobtrusively at normal use then I may let it stay 'as is'; my listening room should be a nice environment for it, especially considering that they're designed for 24/7 use in sales counters, signage etc, so hopefully fan failure will take a long while. But if I can hear the fan during any normal listening scenareo, then a bigger quieter fan and/or a passive case will certainly be needed. I have compromised on a low power machine with the key intentions of reducing heat, energy use and easier/smaller inadudible operation, so that latter goal will be met in some way or other.
Previously my preferred answer has been to go for a system that is basically capable of fully passive operation without significant harm. But then 'also' adding inaudible fan(s) just to come on and reduce throttling when needed and improve life for the rest of the motherboard (e.g when transcoding an entire media library to a different format). This approach has benefitted from bios/uefi with fan control/profile options, which even allows fans that can be fast and audible (when really/rarely necessary) to be either off or inadudible at all other times.
I have yet to judge this cute tiny NUC; a power cord is on the way, and then I will be able to test. It is a low TDP mobile-CPU machine with larger fan than many laptops, and I hear it has some fan-control bios/uefi options, too. So.. we will see; if it idles unobtrusively at normal use then I may let it stay 'as is'; my listening room should be a nice environment for it, especially considering that they're designed for 24/7 use in sales counters, signage etc, so hopefully fan failure will take a long while. But if I can hear the fan during any normal listening scenareo, then a bigger quieter fan and/or a passive case will certainly be needed. I have compromised on a low power machine with the key intentions of reducing heat, energy use and easier/smaller inadudible operation, so that latter goal will be met in some way or other.
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Well I at last have all the bits, and an unexpected day off work, so have been able to do a bit of testing. Windows11 didn't recognise lots of the hardware, so no network/LAN initially, but I've a USB-NIC that was recognised so I could update windows and then all was well.
I'm happy to say that the fan can indeed be inaudible in normal use, though it becomes audible when working slightly harder. When running full tilt (which only happened whilst doing a uefi/firmware update) it is very loud indeed, so that shows how well the fan control works. In fact there are a few fan profiles to choose or customise, which will also help. So it is at least possible that I may not feel the need for a larger passive case, we shall see.
Unfortunately one can't easily restrain windows from doing things in the background (or at least I don't immediately know how), which can spin the fan audibly at unexpected times. There are almost certainly ways to tame it, but I mostly just installed windows as a reserve/contingency, and for updating firmware etc. I'm additionally installing Linux Mint at the moment for normal use; I'll probably also install OpenSUSE as I'm quite impressed with my first look at it and would like to try it on hardware. Pleasingly, Mint (22.1) could find and use the NIC even before any updates.
I'm happy to say that the fan can indeed be inaudible in normal use, though it becomes audible when working slightly harder. When running full tilt (which only happened whilst doing a uefi/firmware update) it is very loud indeed, so that shows how well the fan control works. In fact there are a few fan profiles to choose or customise, which will also help. So it is at least possible that I may not feel the need for a larger passive case, we shall see.
Unfortunately one can't easily restrain windows from doing things in the background (or at least I don't immediately know how), which can spin the fan audibly at unexpected times. There are almost certainly ways to tame it, but I mostly just installed windows as a reserve/contingency, and for updating firmware etc. I'm additionally installing Linux Mint at the moment for normal use; I'll probably also install OpenSUSE as I'm quite impressed with my first look at it and would like to try it on hardware. Pleasingly, Mint (22.1) could find and use the NIC even before any updates.
So I've been using this tiny little thing for a little while now and am increasingly pleased with it. It might be based on mobile/laptop technology but has more than enough performance for my needs, or any I can imagine over the next several years (unless i wanted to host numerous virtual machines again). TBH I had some doubts but I it has become clear that I won't miss the big PC, which is a very good result; in fact I can't imagine myself needing to return to full-sized (even mITX) desktop PCs in the future.
The fan is still undecided; I am a little over-sensitive to such things but normally it is inaudible and only very rarely can one hear it, so I shall stick with it for a while. I'm having more luck with Linux than Windows in that respect, since linux tends not to start doing additional things in the background (like updates) when one is more concerned with listening to music. The passive case will always be an option (part of why I went with a low TDP device) but... I got some crown XLS amps for my subwoofers and for all the reports of them being silent they turned out to be similar (fans rarely audible but they are sometimes), so I may want a wider solution, such as a rack case/cupboard with a door to muffle things. Something I need to work on.
The only real down-side (so far) of my NUC is quite minor; the small number of rear basic USB-A ports. There are only two, a 2.0 port and a 10Gbps port. So, I shall need to get a hub - which might (should) just work these days, but from past experience DACs don't always play nicely with such things so we shall have to see. Not that there is a shortage of ports overall; I've already been pleased at the speed of backing up (to external drives) over the 10Gbps USB-A ports but for the future (e.g. as prices fall) there are faster ssd enclosures or LAN adaptors that could use the 20Gbps and 40Gbps USB/Thunderbolt ports.
The fan is still undecided; I am a little over-sensitive to such things but normally it is inaudible and only very rarely can one hear it, so I shall stick with it for a while. I'm having more luck with Linux than Windows in that respect, since linux tends not to start doing additional things in the background (like updates) when one is more concerned with listening to music. The passive case will always be an option (part of why I went with a low TDP device) but... I got some crown XLS amps for my subwoofers and for all the reports of them being silent they turned out to be similar (fans rarely audible but they are sometimes), so I may want a wider solution, such as a rack case/cupboard with a door to muffle things. Something I need to work on.
The only real down-side (so far) of my NUC is quite minor; the small number of rear basic USB-A ports. There are only two, a 2.0 port and a 10Gbps port. So, I shall need to get a hub - which might (should) just work these days, but from past experience DACs don't always play nicely with such things so we shall have to see. Not that there is a shortage of ports overall; I've already been pleased at the speed of backing up (to external drives) over the 10Gbps USB-A ports but for the future (e.g. as prices fall) there are faster ssd enclosures or LAN adaptors that could use the 20Gbps and 40Gbps USB/Thunderbolt ports.
How do you have your fan profile set up in the BIOS? I find fans pretty annoying as well and it is usually the changing pitch as they speed up and down that is the most annoying. A reasonable solution for me was to create a different ramp up profile where they step up in speed at different temperatures. I found a speed where they were barely audible, and I hold that until a temperature that it only reaches under heavy load, and then have them jump up to a new fixed level. And then I have another temperature where they go to 100%, which I don't think has ever happened. The result is that it's never silent, but 98% of the time, it is a barely audible background hum that doesn't change in volume or pitch.
Thanks, yes that is a good point. There are three stock fan curves to choose from and so of course I've chosen the quietest, but haven't yet investigated customising it further.
It is hard to choose between a varying fan speed (which is more noticeable, due to change), vs a constant low sound that one can come to overlook (but which still increases the noise floor of the environment). Thankfully the fan on this NUC will run inaudibly at a rate which still produces adequate cooling for music playing duties, so hopefully it isn't going to be too critical. I suppose it might depend on what else is happening at the time, e.g. multi-tasking or having the music as part of 4k video transcoding or something.
It is hard to choose between a varying fan speed (which is more noticeable, due to change), vs a constant low sound that one can come to overlook (but which still increases the noise floor of the environment). Thankfully the fan on this NUC will run inaudibly at a rate which still produces adequate cooling for music playing duties, so hopefully it isn't going to be too critical. I suppose it might depend on what else is happening at the time, e.g. multi-tasking or having the music as part of 4k video transcoding or something.
I couldn't see how to make a manual fan curve in the bios, though it mentions the possibility. However, the pre-configured 'quiet' setting has now become more than good enough. This is after updating the linux kernel; the machine runs cooler and even quieter than before (especially when using hardware video decoding). I can't at all hear the fan from my listening position during normal media use, and am not unduly bothered by the slight hum it makes when doing something abnormally taxing; my room has an ambient noise level above 40dB, just from the environment around, so I should try to keep things in context.
So I'm pretty pleased by this; I wasn't sure what to expect, as my experience of mini PCs has been the occasional fanless thin client or the '1 litre' business machines from HP/Dell/Lenovo which have tended to be louder (maybe how their admins set them up). But on the strength of this, I might get a second (probably older) NUC for occasional office work and online shopping/banking etc. I could also use it to host my music/media libraries - offering them with read-only access to the slightly more vulnerable media machine.
So I'm pretty pleased by this; I wasn't sure what to expect, as my experience of mini PCs has been the occasional fanless thin client or the '1 litre' business machines from HP/Dell/Lenovo which have tended to be louder (maybe how their admins set them up). But on the strength of this, I might get a second (probably older) NUC for occasional office work and online shopping/banking etc. I could also use it to host my music/media libraries - offering them with read-only access to the slightly more vulnerable media machine.
Just a small update. Summer has finally arrived here, and I'm now on the top floor of an old building that gets pretty warm as the heat rises. As a result, the NUC 14 pro's fan has again started to become too audible for my liking during video playback or streaming; not massively intrusive but it raises the ambient noise-floor noticeably during quiet sections.
I won't have time to do anything about this for a while, other than plan. However, I've decided to return to fully fanless answers for music/media/HTPC duties. The ultra-5 CPU in the NUC has surprised me with its abilities, which are somewhat wasted in this role really. So, whilst I 'could' make the current NUC fanless, I've decided it will be instead be repurposed as my main/work machine.
The replacement music/media/htpc could most easily be a new, fanless N100/N150/N300 device (e.g. a Minix 0db type). Or, for a more flexible solution, a used i3/i5 mini-PC transplanted into a somewhat bigger fanless case. Looking at my wish list (for port and NIC speeds etc) I could easily go back three or four years to (say) 11th gen intel or equivalent without any issue, so there'd not necessarily be much difference in cost between these options.
Of course, I could reinstate a local LAN, in order to put everything elsewhere and not bother about fan noise. However, sometimes I live in single-room appartments, so there wouldn't really be an 'elsewhere', and also my wish to play 4k video/movies (not just music) is much simpler with close proximity to the TV.
I won't have time to do anything about this for a while, other than plan. However, I've decided to return to fully fanless answers for music/media/HTPC duties. The ultra-5 CPU in the NUC has surprised me with its abilities, which are somewhat wasted in this role really. So, whilst I 'could' make the current NUC fanless, I've decided it will be instead be repurposed as my main/work machine.
The replacement music/media/htpc could most easily be a new, fanless N100/N150/N300 device (e.g. a Minix 0db type). Or, for a more flexible solution, a used i3/i5 mini-PC transplanted into a somewhat bigger fanless case. Looking at my wish list (for port and NIC speeds etc) I could easily go back three or four years to (say) 11th gen intel or equivalent without any issue, so there'd not necessarily be much difference in cost between these options.
Of course, I could reinstate a local LAN, in order to put everything elsewhere and not bother about fan noise. However, sometimes I live in single-room appartments, so there wouldn't really be an 'elsewhere', and also my wish to play 4k video/movies (not just music) is much simpler with close proximity to the TV.