Okay, a new whim (or not) the said Ceramic balls have indefinte advantages? Kind of like when the spikes invaded us or?
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/products/ceraball
What do you think, a new pour of snake oil or not?
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/products/ceraball
What do you think, a new pour of snake oil or not?
nope
Proper control of vibration in hifi is critical. Many electric parts are microphonic, so controlling vibrational noise in electronics chassis keep the tubes, capacitors, yadda yadda, from singing along with the music. In the case of digital componentry, it's less clear-cut, but in a laser-based reader, reducing vibrations keeps the read clean and uses less error-correction, not to mention, it still has capacitors! Clocks may have some issues to be addressed on this front, many people have reported good results from damping their clocks in digital gear.)
Overpriced maybe, but easy to experiment on your own with various supports, dampeners, yadda yadda
Proper control of vibration in hifi is critical. Many electric parts are microphonic, so controlling vibrational noise in electronics chassis keep the tubes, capacitors, yadda yadda, from singing along with the music. In the case of digital componentry, it's less clear-cut, but in a laser-based reader, reducing vibrations keeps the read clean and uses less error-correction, not to mention, it still has capacitors! Clocks may have some issues to be addressed on this front, many people have reported good results from damping their clocks in digital gear.)
Overpriced maybe, but easy to experiment on your own with various supports, dampeners, yadda yadda
steenoe said:What do you think, a new pour of snake oil or not?
This would depend largely on your hearing acuity.
Personally, i find mechanical support more important than cabling and have been using a steel ball version for many years. Much preferable than cones but the components tend to sway a bit.
They are more effective then cones - simply because every time energy that is entring your system has to cross a boundary between disimilar materials it is disipated and transformed to heat. Ceramics are very good in doing this.
If you want I have a bunch of spare aluminium oxide and silicone nitride balls - 3/8" diameter (~9.5mm).
Drop me a mail if you are interested.
decky999@gmail.com
If you want I have a bunch of spare aluminium oxide and silicone nitride balls - 3/8" diameter (~9.5mm).
Drop me a mail if you are interested.
decky999@gmail.com
Decky, thanks a lot for the offer. I have send you an email.
The reviews are really enthusiastic about this product, so it could be interesting to try something similar.
The company also makes this Resonator:
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/products/resonator
Thats a new concept for me and seems even more "snake-like" to me The price is a bit scary too.
Good or not, the feet looks pretty cool.
The reviews are really enthusiastic about this product, so it could be interesting to try something similar.
The company also makes this Resonator:
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/products/resonator
Thats a new concept for me and seems even more "snake-like" to me
The price is a bit scary too.Good or not, the feet looks pretty cool.
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HAhah I have some solid brass round knob door handles I use for feet in my amp... (well it weighs a tonne and would just destroy most plastic feet.)
Can't say it does anything... to get my box vibrateing is going to take some serious sound energy, case sides 4cm thick aluminium sinks, case front 3.5cm thick solid meranti...
Can't say it does anything... to get my box vibrateing is going to take some serious sound energy, case sides 4cm thick aluminium sinks, case front 3.5cm thick solid meranti...
It is not only the balls. Finite elemente have good ideas but their implementation is not the best. I was planning to build something different (that is why I bought the balls in the first place). To save some words please see the attached drawing. I can go in details why in theory ceramic balls are better then steel but in this geometry even steel balls have a considerable effect.
As you can see - the lateral stability very low but the balls cannot roll-out because of the spherical seat.
As you can see - the lateral stability very low but the balls cannot roll-out because of the spherical seat.
Regarding the price - it depends a lot on SIZE then the material and the precision - surface roughness. Mine AL2O3 balls are class 25 roughness and they are around 5$ Silicone Nitride ones are class 5 and they are $8. For comparison - precision steel bearing balls most usually come in class 100. The higher the class the looser the tolerance.
Smaller ceramic balls are readily available but I had a bit of problems to find something around 10mm for this price.
Smaller ceramic balls are readily available but I had a bit of problems to find something around 10mm for this price.
Well SKF will not sell you directly - at least not to Australia.
@SY
I guess I was not that lucky a year ago when I bought them, also I did not know for McMaster. I got them for the price that was a barging for me since I was quoted in Australia ~$20 per ball for SiN. However, I ending up bying too many since the minimum order was $100 and shipping was close to $40. I just have a feeling that you are accusing me of trying to rip someone off and that is not the case here. If someone can get them cheaper - go for it.
@SY
I guess I was not that lucky a year ago when I bought them, also I did not know for McMaster. I got them for the price that was a barging for me since I was quoted in Australia ~$20 per ball for SiN. However, I ending up bying too many since the minimum order was $100 and shipping was close to $40. I just have a feeling that you are accusing me of trying to rip someone off and that is not the case here. If someone can get them cheaper - go for it.
I have been playing with a frugal-phile(tm) variation on this idea. I haven't gotten around to trying steel or ceramic balls yet -- i have been using the 10 for a loon mini-super-balls from the dollar store.
I plant these on top od a Dole fruit cup container that i fill with solid (mostly been using left-over Silent Running SR-500 damping compound (i use it for stiffening/damping frames)).
Picture shows the basic bits and the 2nd one of the ones holding up my Rega.
dave
I plant these on top od a Dole fruit cup container that i fill with solid (mostly been using left-over Silent Running SR-500 damping compound (i use it for stiffening/damping frames)).
Picture shows the basic bits and the 2nd one of the ones holding up my Rega.
dave
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To add, Snake oil is also one of the most potent and effective preventatives/curatives ever known.
The story comes from the unscrupulous folks who would pretend to be selling authentic Native 'snake oil' when in fact it was just diluted alcohol based crap, no snake oil of any kind. The legend of Native curative 'snake oil' healing powers...is what created the liars and thieves.
Authentic snake oil is an awesome thing.
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To clarify, damping is a tricky art at best. The seeming majority of audiophile companies selling damping goods appear to not really know much about the entire concoction of audio signals vs. vibration vs. what it takes to absorb exactly the correct amount..and leave the signal alone. This is a very serious endeavor to embark on and takes up about as much high level physics as one can care to imagine.
Like the so-called 'simple' dynamic loudspeaker driver or even a simple blade of grass, both are apparently simple but embody the most high level physics that man can even attempt to dream about-and obviously does not understand. The limit of understanding in these areas are one's given capacity to investigate past one's internally accepted, internally directed and erected barriers of belief.
The story comes from the unscrupulous folks who would pretend to be selling authentic Native 'snake oil' when in fact it was just diluted alcohol based crap, no snake oil of any kind. The legend of Native curative 'snake oil' healing powers...is what created the liars and thieves.
Authentic snake oil is an awesome thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To clarify, damping is a tricky art at best. The seeming majority of audiophile companies selling damping goods appear to not really know much about the entire concoction of audio signals vs. vibration vs. what it takes to absorb exactly the correct amount..and leave the signal alone. This is a very serious endeavor to embark on and takes up about as much high level physics as one can care to imagine.
Like the so-called 'simple' dynamic loudspeaker driver or even a simple blade of grass, both are apparently simple but embody the most high level physics that man can even attempt to dream about-and obviously does not understand. The limit of understanding in these areas are one's given capacity to investigate past one's internally accepted, internally directed and erected barriers of belief.
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