CD Player sound quality (long)

[audio_tony]

Hello all, this is my first post here. Please bear with me, my point is further down, but I need to provide some background.

I have been a Hi-Fi entusiast for many years having built various amps etc. Now to my point.

Through all my upgrades of various CD players and amps, I have the following question(s).

I bought a relatively expensive player (Marantz CD-17) and recently upgraded my amp and speakers. I now have a Linn Pretek and 2 x Powertek amplifiers, feeding Linn Keilidh speakers. (bi-amped)

I happened to "dig out" my old Aiwa XC-300 CD Player the other day (1 bit DAC - 8x oversampling) and I'm convinced this sounds better than the Marantz CD-17 in the above system. Further testing with a Sony CDP-790 (High Density Linear Converter) also 1 bit but 18x oversampling I think.. suggests that too sounds better than the Marantz. I also have a Cambridge S700 Isomagic DAC, which sounds identical to the Marantz, but again, inferior to the Sony / Aiwa players. Even further testing with a Musical Fidelity X-ACT reveals the X-ACT to be better sounding than the Marantz, but it is felt that the Sony / Aiwa CDP's sound better..

Now, testing these various combinations in a lesser system reveals the Marantz to be better sounding, with the Sony and Aiwa sounding bright / sharp. Possible conclusions are:

A) Does the Linn system cope better with extraneous HF / ultrasonic information emitted from the cheaper CDP's?
B) Is the cheaper system reacting badly to this HF / Ultrasonic information? Hence the Marantz apparently sounds better in lesser systems?

Does anybody have any insight to offer here?

Cheers,
Tony.

 

[audio_tony]

CD Player sound quality

I had expected some kind of comment by now!

My reason for this topic is that I have recently purchased a non oversampling DAC kit, which I'm waiting for, and was trying to get some idea of what I could expect.
I suspect the non osd will give a similar performance, sounding rough on cheaper equipment, but better / ok on high end stuff.

Thanks.

 

[Gaucho]

A) Does the Linn system cope better with extraneous HF / ultrasonic information emitted from the cheaper CDP's?

I suspect what you experiencing is indeed a synergy issue, your system and or personal tastes likely favours the 'hot' sound associated with the cheaper CDPs. Ultimately you should be able to get MUCH better performance with the Marantz, Cambridge or MF sources. As a first resort I would suggest trying some different interconnects and or speaker cables. Cheers.

 

[audio_tony]

Thanks for your response.

I have tried various cable combinations, including home made from twisted / plaited "hook up cable" to branded interconnects.

I have experimented with various types of speaker cable too.

This includes variations on the QED 79 strand types, plus monster cables. I'm currently using a flat cable made by JVC, which has to date resulted in the best sound. This cable appears to be similar in construction to the recommended (by Linn) Linn cable (no surprise there).

I agree with your sentiments, and would have expected to get the best sound from the Marantz & DAC combinations.

The cheaper CD players appear to give better results in the midband / top region, although the Aiwa in particular also seems to yield really good bass too.

I tend to favour a bright clear sound, and perhaps find the Marantz a little too smotth I think. Maybe I should try another high end player from some other brand.

Cheers.

 

[Gaucho]

I tend to favour a bright clear sound, and perhaps find the Marantz a little too smotth I think. Maybe I should try another high end player from some other brand.

I see you have exhausted the cable route. I removed the buffer stage from the output section of my Cambridge DAC and it resulted in much more transparency and a enhanced (brighter) high frequencies. It was quite a transformation, you may want to consider such a modification before making another purchase. It was very simple to do in my case and cost nothing. Regards.

 

[audio_tony]

Yes, I did notice my DAC had quite a (very) comprehensive filter section.

Perhaps you're right - some modification in that area may bring about the desired sound. Thanks for the tip.

Would be useful if I could get a diagram for it - any offers anyone?

A diagram for a Cambridge S700 Isomagic???

Thanks!!

 

[klitgt]

I see you have exhausted the cable route. I removed the buffer stage from the output section of my Cambridge DAC and it resulted in much more transparency and a enhanced (brighter) high frequencies. It was quite a transformation, you may want to consider such a modification before making another purchase. It was very simple to do in my case and cost nothing. Regards.

Hi
Taking away the filter and buffer is a really good idea!
Look what I did to my Denon DCD3560 CDP. This machine is among the best transports available, but born with low-end audio parts in the analog section, see diagram showing left channel.
IC511 is the I/V converter (dual opamp using only one of the amps) taking the I-out signal from the DAC chip. The other DAC chip in left channel goes to another similar I/V converter opamp. Those 2 I/V converters put their signals into IC512. IC512 sends the signal into the filter/buffer circuit consisting of IC513/IC514.

What I did was to replace IC511 with OPA627 (single opamp SOI chip mounted on an adapter PCB. Tiny things that I had to assemble under microscope!!).

IC512 was also replaced with OPA627 normal DIL version that fits directly.
All the OPA627s are decoupled with 100nF caps between + and - pins to ground and a 330nF cap over + and - pins.

C533 and R548 are removed and a lead from between R543/544 is soldered directly to the junction between R563/562.
C513/514 are removed to prevent unnecessary power consumption.

C538/539 and C542 and the ceramic 470pF decoupl. cap at the rca output are removed.

All resistors in the signal path are replaced with carbon composite and the small caps (C529/530 and others behind (not visible in the diagram) IC511 are replaced with silver mica.

And Voila! The sound is open, dynamic, transparent, coherent and very much more engaging than before the mods. Even though the sound is also somewhat brighter it is not harsh or rough, on the contrary. Much more silk an less sandpaper.

Cheers