Considering most recording studios replaced there's with digital recorders
30 years ago I would say not as good. Not to mention all the trouble of keeping a tape machine aligned and calibrated.
And since we love clear and easy to grasp legislation, we had to define twelve different categories of digital media with opaque different taxes applied to each.
Cyrilliu,
What brand and model CD Player are you using?
I'll going out on a limb here and say- regardless of price, the CD Player will need to be a very good sounding player to beat a basic music server.
The DAC output has a lot to do with the sound on both.
This is just another tape vs vinyl vs CD vs music server argument. Boo!
What brand and model CD Player are you using?
I'll going out on a limb here and say- regardless of price, the CD Player will need to be a very good sounding player to beat a basic music server.
The DAC output has a lot to do with the sound on both.
This is just another tape vs vinyl vs CD vs music server argument. Boo!
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A sweeping statement like that must be backed up by measurements, or at least a valid ABX, right?
Perhaps misaligned crystals in the SATA cable to the HDD, or a directional SATA the wrong way, could explain it?
Perhaps misaligned crystals in the SATA cable to the HDD, or a directional SATA the wrong way, could explain it?
DOS machine Vs Win.
Some time ago, a friend make the following test: in the same machine (Mother, micro, memory and sound card), two different disks, on with DOS7.10 (unofficial DOS under W98) and other with W98. One, running the free online available mpxplay for DOS, in the other the media player and winamp. Clearly the DOS machine sounds much better than win one. Surely, because the µPC has only task to do, and the absence of other programs needing µPC and disk attention, making noise in the buses.
Some time ago, a friend make the following test: in the same machine (Mother, micro, memory and sound card), two different disks, on with DOS7.10 (unofficial DOS under W98) and other with W98. One, running the free online available mpxplay for DOS, in the other the media player and winamp. Clearly the DOS machine sounds much better than win one. Surely, because the µPC has only task to do, and the absence of other programs needing µPC and disk attention, making noise in the buses.
'
That must be one pathetic PC. I routinely record 2 or 3 HDTV streams while working on audio files and NEVER run into any sort of problems with the audio or the TV. The audio uses a paltry 176KB per second while the drive is capable of over 100 MEGA bytes / second transfer rates. TV streams are about 2.5 megabyte per channel active. I have for laughs tried recording 6 HD feeds while playing out 2 more streams form the "TV" machine. Again, no problems.
G²
The problem with a CD is you are reading it at 1x with some rather limited error correction facilities, although the CD player's DAC will be very tolerant of over-mastered CDs that may upset many other DACs.
The first potential quality improvement with HDD comes from the retry-able ripping process from a PC CD/DVD reader of far more accuracy than a CD transport - designed as they are to dig out data from crust recordable DVD media.
Sound quality is then simply down to how steadily you can feed the digits into the DAC and how good the DAC is, and if it gets upset by overload.
If you're playing straight from a tablet or laptop it's possible the sound chip perhaps lacks the buffering and timing correction of something like an Ultramatch or indeed that of a dumb CD player that has only one job to do (disk and track errors aside).
So if your CD player sound better I'd suggest some pro-audio box help. I use modded Behringer gear because it's affordable, sounds good, easy to mod and the displays show you what's going on. It even shows you clips with some red LEDs on the input meters which is useful, but the main general tasks are re-timing and upsampling with a little room EQ thrown in as required. Also when feeding from a PC (USB -> optical -> gear) a slight reduction from full of the PC sound level (and ideally feeding out in 24bit so you don't lose resolution by the attenuation) allows you to reduce the levels hitting the DAC to sensible ones.
My own experience of this has led me not to own a CD player for over a decade: this gear sounds far better: apart from the obvious jukebox advantages. Less exercise from not having to change disks though.
The next big challenge will be to find a better DAC, all DACs have their own issues and I think this is the next challenge for the next step up in quality: finding the best non DSD DAC.
The first potential quality improvement with HDD comes from the retry-able ripping process from a PC CD/DVD reader of far more accuracy than a CD transport - designed as they are to dig out data from crust recordable DVD media.
Sound quality is then simply down to how steadily you can feed the digits into the DAC and how good the DAC is, and if it gets upset by overload.
If you're playing straight from a tablet or laptop it's possible the sound chip perhaps lacks the buffering and timing correction of something like an Ultramatch or indeed that of a dumb CD player that has only one job to do (disk and track errors aside).
So if your CD player sound better I'd suggest some pro-audio box help. I use modded Behringer gear because it's affordable, sounds good, easy to mod and the displays show you what's going on. It even shows you clips with some red LEDs on the input meters which is useful, but the main general tasks are re-timing and upsampling with a little room EQ thrown in as required. Also when feeding from a PC (USB -> optical -> gear) a slight reduction from full of the PC sound level (and ideally feeding out in 24bit so you don't lose resolution by the attenuation) allows you to reduce the levels hitting the DAC to sensible ones.
My own experience of this has led me not to own a CD player for over a decade: this gear sounds far better: apart from the obvious jukebox advantages. Less exercise from not having to change disks though.
The next big challenge will be to find a better DAC, all DACs have their own issues and I think this is the next challenge for the next step up in quality: finding the best non DSD DAC.
That seems a very strange thing to say -what the hell do you DO with your CDs? 😱 And why can't one copy CDs to make a valid comparison?
I would agree with the straight reading of thread title's statement. CD is a better storage medium than HD for that music on those CDs.
I have CDs printed (pressed? What does one call it?) in the 80s that play perfectly. The CD stored that music perfectly well for it to play.
Throw a CD like a frisbie across the room. Throw an HD across the room. Or simply accidentally drop them.. Which is likely to still be readable? The CD and for many many many more throws across rooms in the future.
Store a CD in it's case and leave it for 30 years in the store room of your house. Do the same with a HD. Which will be more likely to continue to store that music perfectly both over that period and a long extended period of use afterward? The CD. HD may well just not take that first powering up . What kind of storage is that?
Take a CD from the 80s and put it in a CD player of today.. it plays. Standardised for continuous storage and use throughout the decades. Take a HD (err, first pick which type - there were many) and try putting it in a new PC of today. Any luck in reading it? Nope - terrible for long-term storage. They are never used for data archiving either.
Hard-drives have many factors that make them much better choices for some things. For long term, hands off storage of a group of 44.1/16 tracks, CDs win hands down.
And you don't put all your eggs in one basket with CDs. Effective fire breaks between each album.
If the storage media fails at the storage part, then a discussion about sound quality is pointless..
I have CDs printed (pressed? What does one call it?) in the 80s that play perfectly. The CD stored that music perfectly well for it to play.
Throw a CD like a frisbie across the room. Throw an HD across the room. Or simply accidentally drop them.. Which is likely to still be readable? The CD and for many many many more throws across rooms in the future.
Store a CD in it's case and leave it for 30 years in the store room of your house. Do the same with a HD. Which will be more likely to continue to store that music perfectly both over that period and a long extended period of use afterward? The CD. HD may well just not take that first powering up . What kind of storage is that?
Take a CD from the 80s and put it in a CD player of today.. it plays. Standardised for continuous storage and use throughout the decades. Take a HD (err, first pick which type - there were many) and try putting it in a new PC of today. Any luck in reading it? Nope - terrible for long-term storage. They are never used for data archiving either.
Hard-drives have many factors that make them much better choices for some things. For long term, hands off storage of a group of 44.1/16 tracks, CDs win hands down.
And you don't put all your eggs in one basket with CDs. Effective fire breaks between each album.
If the storage media fails at the storage part, then a discussion about sound quality is pointless..
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When I started reading this thread I thought that the OP was just trolling us. Then it became apparent that he was not.
I'm not doubting that he heard differences between the CDs (with the wave files stored as data in them - not as audio!!) and the HDDs, but I disagree as to what caused these differences.
Using a CD-ROM vs. an HDD on a modern computer will cause no difference in the data stream coming out of the computer since the data will have been buffered so many times by various subsystems of the PC. Since the wave files are stored as data on the CD, the CD-ROM is functioning as a data storage device and not an audio CD transport, so we have full error detection and correction.
What might be different is the electrical noise profile of the I2S signals, if care is not taken. That might make for an audible difference.
I'm not doubting that he heard differences between the CDs (with the wave files stored as data in them - not as audio!!) and the HDDs, but I disagree as to what caused these differences.
Using a CD-ROM vs. an HDD on a modern computer will cause no difference in the data stream coming out of the computer since the data will have been buffered so many times by various subsystems of the PC. Since the wave files are stored as data on the CD, the CD-ROM is functioning as a data storage device and not an audio CD transport, so we have full error detection and correction.
What might be different is the electrical noise profile of the I2S signals, if care is not taken. That might make for an audible difference.
... and there are a good few cd players using cd -rom drives and extracting data at multiple speeds anyway.
Recordable CDs are not for eternity. But this has been discussed many times. And factory pressed audio CDs also have limited lifetime:
The first generation of CDs is already rotting and dying - CDM Create Digital Music
The first generation of CDs is already rotting and dying - CDM Create Digital Music
Ha! You should always read past sensational headlines (I hope you do with important things).
From the article:
This is an interesting study - the lifetime archival DVD-rs M-Disc appear to be what one needs.
http://www.imaging.org/site/PDFS/Reporter/Articles/REP26_3_4_ARCH2011_Lunt.pdf
Here is stated SSDs will last two years unpowered in optimal conditions, as few as 3 months in non-optimal conditions. (I'd better sort out my old laptop SSD quick! )
<title>Some SSDs Can Lose Data After Just A Few Days In Storage
In my experience, stored HDs are hit and miss over a a good few years. I always guess it's the power surge of first start up that gets them.
http://www.imaging.org/site/PDFS/Reporter/Articles/REP26_3_4_ARCH2011_Lunt.pdf
Here is stated SSDs will last two years unpowered in optimal conditions, as few as 3 months in non-optimal conditions. (I'd better sort out my old laptop SSD quick! )
<title>Some SSDs Can Lose Data After Just A Few Days In Storage
In my experience, stored HDs are hit and miss over a a good few years. I always guess it's the power surge of first start up that gets them.
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For me it's no contest. I value high storage density at low cost with high speed of transfer to make it easy to conduct regular back-ups and to follow hardware trends (e.g. no need to maintain legacy read systems). This is much easier (faster and automatic) using HDDs (or whatever technology emerges). I've no idea why anybody would want to stick with CDs anymore unless they are invested in hardware etc. that makes it too painful to come to terms with reality.
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For me personally, it's too painful to have to set up, pay for, maintain and power a hdd backup somewhere in the flat whilst following hardware trends. And then also rip all the CDs and ensure all the images are correct and to be discaplined enough to file them all in a certain folder structure that works for searches blah blah blah, yawn yawn.
Why not just have the CDs in a cupboard and put the one you want to listen to in a CD player? You get the same music and NONE of the hassle or constant ongoing costs.
I don't care for computing (other than for practical purposes) and want to listen to music with the least bother. CDs are perfect for that. They sit in a cupboard and stay working- excellent storage medium! Play on a good transport that cost me a day and a half's freelance wages . It is only the player that has potential failure points as does any hardware, just like the computer ones. Although it's likely I can fix the CD transport myself... a broken raid system not so much.
Of course I also have flacs and things for mobile use or albums that have come from other places than CDs. I do both.
Why not just have the CDs in a cupboard and put the one you want to listen to in a CD player? You get the same music and NONE of the hassle or constant ongoing costs.
I don't care for computing (other than for practical purposes) and want to listen to music with the least bother. CDs are perfect for that. They sit in a cupboard and stay working- excellent storage medium! Play on a good transport that cost me a day and a half's freelance wages . It is only the player that has potential failure points as does any hardware, just like the computer ones. Although it's likely I can fix the CD transport myself... a broken raid system not so much.
Of course I also have flacs and things for mobile use or albums that have come from other places than CDs. I do both.
Haha - I have your exact same argument - in every detail - to argue for ditching CDs and going to HDD 🙂.
When a new CD arrives I rip it on the laptop and drop it on the NAS. Backup is via a Raspberry Pi to a USB disk but actually my Time Machine could easily back them up if I stored them on the Apple instead.
Then when I want to play a track I pick them out like on a jukebox, stacking up a list of songs to hear on the song stack like a DJ and away I go! To play my favourite tracks would require me to change CDs and select the track every few minutes: on the computer I can stay on the sofa for weeks.
Except for food, work, the bathroom, the cat etc of course. So these are theoretical weeks - not real weeks..
Also I want the music in the garage, bedroom, living room - not just where the CDs are. I do have a CD player still in the kitchen though, that's had the latest Dido in it now for some time, it's a nice CD but changing disc is something I'm not used to anymore 😀
BTW I have had disk rot on CDs, years ago when I ripped them all some of them were very reluctant to be ripped or played. It was rare I'd scan every single minute of all my CDs so I only noticed at that time!
If my HDDs all crash I'll have to rip them all again of course, but I haven't had to do that yet. I used iTunes to rip them as WAV, it wasn't a problem, just feeding i the disks one after the other, all the track names etc were automatically looked up.
When a new CD arrives I rip it on the laptop and drop it on the NAS. Backup is via a Raspberry Pi to a USB disk but actually my Time Machine could easily back them up if I stored them on the Apple instead.
Then when I want to play a track I pick them out like on a jukebox, stacking up a list of songs to hear on the song stack like a DJ and away I go! To play my favourite tracks would require me to change CDs and select the track every few minutes: on the computer I can stay on the sofa for weeks.
Except for food, work, the bathroom, the cat etc of course. So these are theoretical weeks - not real weeks..
Also I want the music in the garage, bedroom, living room - not just where the CDs are. I do have a CD player still in the kitchen though, that's had the latest Dido in it now for some time, it's a nice CD but changing disc is something I'm not used to anymore 😀
BTW I have had disk rot on CDs, years ago when I ripped them all some of them were very reluctant to be ripped or played. It was rare I'd scan every single minute of all my CDs so I only noticed at that time!
If my HDDs all crash I'll have to rip them all again of course, but I haven't had to do that yet. I used iTunes to rip them as WAV, it wasn't a problem, just feeding i the disks one after the other, all the track names etc were automatically looked up.
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