I'm working on a friends original amazings. These have 4 honey comb woofers and 2 32" ribbon tweeters in each cabinet. Each woofer is 4 ohm and I think the tweeter is also 4 ohm. These send the Carver M1.0 with MK2 mods into clipping very very early - literally like a pleasantly loud level. By contrast the Kappa 7's he has are deafening and still dont clip the amp on the same equipment.
The remedy/idea is to bi-amp them, crossing over into tweeter ~750-800 hz (currently they're at 350 hz with the original carver XO).
Has anyone done this - I am thinking of the woofer 2X2 for 4 ohm and tweeter on a 2nd amp (adcom 555 for woofer and Carver M1.0 Mk2 mod for tweeter).
Some pointers would be nice.
The remedy/idea is to bi-amp them, crossing over into tweeter ~750-800 hz (currently they're at 350 hz with the original carver XO).
Has anyone done this - I am thinking of the woofer 2X2 for 4 ohm and tweeter on a 2nd amp (adcom 555 for woofer and Carver M1.0 Mk2 mod for tweeter).
Some pointers would be nice.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bob-carver-carving-name-himself-page-2
"When I first came out with the Amazing Loudspeaker, my ribbon was four times less efficient than it is now. And the marketplace wouldn't accept it. I mean, I sold Amazing Loudspeakers all right, but not nearly as many as I wanted to.
Even my own amplifiers had troubles driving them, to be honest. You know, if you'd wail on an original Amazing Loudspeaker with one of my amplifiers, which had enough power, sometimes it'd run out of thermal capacity and would go "Click!" The thermal switch would turn it off."
"When I first came out with the Amazing Loudspeaker, my ribbon was four times less efficient than it is now. And the marketplace wouldn't accept it. I mean, I sold Amazing Loudspeakers all right, but not nearly as many as I wanted to.
Even my own amplifiers had troubles driving them, to be honest. You know, if you'd wail on an original Amazing Loudspeaker with one of my amplifiers, which had enough power, sometimes it'd run out of thermal capacity and would go "Click!" The thermal switch would turn it off."
Minimum and maximum power suggestions here are interesting considering the above commentary:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/892668/Carver-Amazing-Loudspeaker.html?page=4#manual
Some other experiences:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...um-loudspeakers-compatible-power-amps.798547/
"I'm no expert. But, everything I've ever read on the various Amazings, is you need POWER. And, the more the better. While I like your choice of the McIntosh, I still wonder if it's enough? I'd suggest the biggest Crown pro amp that you can afford, and decide from there, if more power is needed"
. . .
"Best amp I ever used on my ALS was a Crown CTS-2000. I had tried everything from Soundcraftsmen MA5002 & Pro Power 10, ADCOM 555 & 565, to Audio Research D300, and SAE."
. . .
"The platinums can suck up more power than any other speaker I’ve heard."
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/892668/Carver-Amazing-Loudspeaker.html?page=4#manual
Some other experiences:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...um-loudspeakers-compatible-power-amps.798547/
"I'm no expert. But, everything I've ever read on the various Amazings, is you need POWER. And, the more the better. While I like your choice of the McIntosh, I still wonder if it's enough? I'd suggest the biggest Crown pro amp that you can afford, and decide from there, if more power is needed"
. . .
"Best amp I ever used on my ALS was a Crown CTS-2000. I had tried everything from Soundcraftsmen MA5002 & Pro Power 10, ADCOM 555 & 565, to Audio Research D300, and SAE."
. . .
"The platinums can suck up more power than any other speaker I’ve heard."
In addition to bi-amping, are you saying you're going to remove the passive crossovers completely and handle the crossover another way? If so:
The manualslib schematic shows the series total on the ribbons as 1.5 ohms. If that's the value, it will likely need to be addressed in some way, since removing the passive crossover would make the load more rude than it already was.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if the ribbons are inherently inefficient, removing the passive crossover isn't likely to provide a large gain. If they need 1000 watts to play at higher SPLs because of low sensitivity, that's just what they need.
A lot of the complexity in the crossover is response shaping, and there's quite a bit of it going on. That will need to be replicated some way to maintain the current frequency balance.
Changing the cross point is likely to require different woofer response shaping as well.
I'm not trying to be discouraging, but if a 1000 watt amp is ultimately the solution for the ribbons' low sensitivity, I would definitely just try that on the whole speaker first and see what you've got. Removing the passive crossover and changing the cross point is a significant undertaking, unless you find someone that's already done exactly what you're proposing.
The manualslib schematic shows the series total on the ribbons as 1.5 ohms. If that's the value, it will likely need to be addressed in some way, since removing the passive crossover would make the load more rude than it already was.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if the ribbons are inherently inefficient, removing the passive crossover isn't likely to provide a large gain. If they need 1000 watts to play at higher SPLs because of low sensitivity, that's just what they need.
A lot of the complexity in the crossover is response shaping, and there's quite a bit of it going on. That will need to be replicated some way to maintain the current frequency balance.
Changing the cross point is likely to require different woofer response shaping as well.
I'm not trying to be discouraging, but if a 1000 watt amp is ultimately the solution for the ribbons' low sensitivity, I would definitely just try that on the whole speaker first and see what you've got. Removing the passive crossover and changing the cross point is a significant undertaking, unless you find someone that's already done exactly what you're proposing.
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Yes we were doing an external XO - an Ashly 2001 that someone on the carver facebook group used. We contacted him but got no response yet.
I'll suggest that he wait for his info or someone else to mention what they did, you have been great. Atleast we stopped short of screwing up something that's OK now, just needs more power, which really was my first suggestion to him.
I'll suggest that he wait for his info or someone else to mention what they did, you have been great. Atleast we stopped short of screwing up something that's OK now, just needs more power, which really was my first suggestion to him.
I had the 3 woofer one with 48" ribbon. They sounded fantastic on the silver 7 mono blocks. Then I sold the amp and while it was OK on a few other amps, the one that brought it to life was the proceed amp 5 of which I used just 2 channels. That was rated at just 125 a channel. These drive the MK2 modded M1.0 into clipping so easily.
Also I suspect the mods make it light the top led (the clipping LED) with out actually sending the amp into clipping. I believe the lights are tied to power, and since the power supply caps are upgraded with higher capacity and the amp is modded to use more of the available power (I'm not really sure what they do exactly) it may light up that light but not actually clip - BTW it doesn't sound like its clipping. It may be awful close to clipping but not yet.
Also at 155hz the woofers were making good sound, and nothing from the tweeters. But by 350 all you could hear was the tweeters. We decided that 750 was a good spot to set the XO if we were going that route. We were going to wire up these 4 4 ohm woofers into a 2X2 combo for a 4 ohm total load, and the tweeter by itself, run the tweeter off the MK2 carver, and the woofers off an adcom 555.