THE QUESTION: Do women PROCESS sound the same way we guys do? Now I know this subject has been discussed at length ever since Hi Fi became a male dominated sport but I’d like to take this opportunity to put my 2 cents worth into the pot. And ,of course, your comments and arguments are encouraged.
Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that, for the most part, women are primarily VISUALLY stimulated creatures.
The first time this possibility came to my attention was years ago when my girlfriend, at the time, dragged me off to Dodger Stadium to hear the Beetles on their first U.S. tour. During that 3 hour concert I, along with every one else attending, didn’t hear one word the Fab Four sang because the girls never stopped screaming at the top of their lungs. So if they weren’t there for the music, what was it that stimulated them into such an emotional bru ha ha . Maybe this was just some teeny-bopper phenom right? But that doesn’t explain the 30 and 40 something’s that follow Tom Jones , Englebert Humperdinck, and Michael Bolton. Does anyone out there really believe that the ladies would be throwing their panties on stage if Tom Jones looked like Meatloaf ????
Back in the 70’s I read an interview, I believe it was in Rolling Stone, where John Lennon stated that, in his opinion,"Roy Orbison possessed the greatest Rock & Roll voice of all time, that had he just looked a little more like Elvis a different King would be occupying the throne."
Now I’m not saying that our ladies don’t enjoy good music but I suspect that if the VISUALS aren’t there, the music, on its own, might not be given a fair chance. That the same is NOT practiced by the guys is evidenced by the heights reached by singers such as Ella Fitzgerald, Mama Cass Elliot, Arithea Franklin, Janice Joplin, Sarah Vaughan etc.etc.
Most of us know that our sound systems are tolerated only if our 3 way floor standers somehow fit into our ladies decor. Should a fire storm threaten our homes giving us time to only grab a few hands full of items, my first instinct would probably be to pick up those non-replaceable vinyl discs but, for sure, my lady will grab the photo album.
So I come back to the question, do women PROCESS sound (music) exactly the same way we do or are we wired so differently that this can not be the case? When she sets in the sweet spot and listens to a great piece of music, does she react emotionally with the attendant chill up her spine the way we do? Would it help if while the music was playing, we displayed a video for her of Chippendale dancers synchronized to the music?
There’s always exceptions to any rule of course, I’m thinking Joni Mitchell now, and the only way to prove or disprove it would be to somehow occupy a female body for a day or two but until science finds a way to do that I guess we’ll just have to leave it all to speculation. Come to think of it, science has already done it.
Are there any Audiophiles out there who have gone through the gender change process, and if so can you shed any light on this subject?
Your comments are welcomed.
Chuck Richey
Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that, for the most part, women are primarily VISUALLY stimulated creatures.
The first time this possibility came to my attention was years ago when my girlfriend, at the time, dragged me off to Dodger Stadium to hear the Beetles on their first U.S. tour. During that 3 hour concert I, along with every one else attending, didn’t hear one word the Fab Four sang because the girls never stopped screaming at the top of their lungs. So if they weren’t there for the music, what was it that stimulated them into such an emotional bru ha ha . Maybe this was just some teeny-bopper phenom right? But that doesn’t explain the 30 and 40 something’s that follow Tom Jones , Englebert Humperdinck, and Michael Bolton. Does anyone out there really believe that the ladies would be throwing their panties on stage if Tom Jones looked like Meatloaf ????
Back in the 70’s I read an interview, I believe it was in Rolling Stone, where John Lennon stated that, in his opinion,"Roy Orbison possessed the greatest Rock & Roll voice of all time, that had he just looked a little more like Elvis a different King would be occupying the throne."
Now I’m not saying that our ladies don’t enjoy good music but I suspect that if the VISUALS aren’t there, the music, on its own, might not be given a fair chance. That the same is NOT practiced by the guys is evidenced by the heights reached by singers such as Ella Fitzgerald, Mama Cass Elliot, Arithea Franklin, Janice Joplin, Sarah Vaughan etc.etc.
Most of us know that our sound systems are tolerated only if our 3 way floor standers somehow fit into our ladies decor. Should a fire storm threaten our homes giving us time to only grab a few hands full of items, my first instinct would probably be to pick up those non-replaceable vinyl discs but, for sure, my lady will grab the photo album.
So I come back to the question, do women PROCESS sound (music) exactly the same way we do or are we wired so differently that this can not be the case? When she sets in the sweet spot and listens to a great piece of music, does she react emotionally with the attendant chill up her spine the way we do? Would it help if while the music was playing, we displayed a video for her of Chippendale dancers synchronized to the music?
There’s always exceptions to any rule of course, I’m thinking Joni Mitchell now, and the only way to prove or disprove it would be to somehow occupy a female body for a day or two but until science finds a way to do that I guess we’ll just have to leave it all to speculation. Come to think of it, science has already done it.
Are there any Audiophiles out there who have gone through the gender change process, and if so can you shed any light on this subject?
Your comments are welcomed.
Chuck Richey
I'll tell you what: In my reply to a comment about my system - my mrs says "I know, I know - I can hear it!!! Can we go out now?!"
I think this is sure proof that women CAN hear - when they want to go out! 😉
Gaz
I think this is sure proof that women CAN hear - when they want to go out! 😉
Gaz
I'd say women scream over male performers. Men stare silently and drool over female performers. Vice versa = nothing. Same goes for strip shows I'm told.
They probably:
Listen to all the instruments individually, but simultaneously, and record them word for word - for use at a later time🙁
Cannot appreciate the sound-stage due to poor spacial judgement. (It's a bit like parking really😉 ).
Joking aside, my wife is completely uncritical (of audio). My daughter, even in her teens, thought CD's sounded "coarse".
So there you go...
Womens Hearing Ability
Hi John,
Same with my (ex)wife. She now is listening to plastic loudspeakers saying it is perfectly OK.
My daughter, just 17, collected all her savings and some of her mothers to buy a new stereo set.
I was done by critical listening at the dealers showroom and I must admit the sound is nice and full of bass from remarkable small loudspeakers.
Apparantly she has the same desease as her father, I don't blame her for that...
The set is a Technics minitower with biwired(!) loudspeakers.
😉 😉
dhaen said:
Hi John,
Same with my (ex)wife. She now is listening to plastic loudspeakers saying it is perfectly OK.
My daughter, just 17, collected all her savings and some of her mothers to buy a new stereo set.
I was done by critical listening at the dealers showroom and I must admit the sound is nice and full of bass from remarkable small loudspeakers.
Apparantly she has the same desease as her father, I don't blame her for that...
The set is a Technics minitower with biwired(!) loudspeakers.
😉 😉
Hi-Fi or music
Chuck asked
An interesting question... but a little misleading in that Chuck (apparently) assumes that music and sound are an identity when they are not.
Music is something we experience through sound that alters our emotional state - and women certainly experience that the same way that men do (within the normal wide human lvariation). Of course a concert experience is much more complex than listening at home but again the emotional modifiers are dominent and can drive the 'mass hysteria' reaction that some concerts generate. And mass hysteria can be very sex specific. Witness the female reaction to the Fab Four concerts or male reaction at certain Heavy Metal concerts.
Analysing sound, as opposed to music, is not something most women find interesting (not something they can't do just something they don't feel they want to do). HiFi, in particular isn't interesting to most women but music certainly is.
I recently returned to valve amplifiers and fullrange speakers after 25 years of solid state amplifiers and multiple driver speakers. My wife, who loves music, now tells her friends that I have finally given up HiFi and now just play music!
Sometimes less is more... and women, in general, have stayed at the heart of music - it's emotional content and context.
ciao
James
Chuck asked
An interesting question... but a little misleading in that Chuck (apparently) assumes that music and sound are an identity when they are not.
Music is something we experience through sound that alters our emotional state - and women certainly experience that the same way that men do (within the normal wide human lvariation). Of course a concert experience is much more complex than listening at home but again the emotional modifiers are dominent and can drive the 'mass hysteria' reaction that some concerts generate. And mass hysteria can be very sex specific. Witness the female reaction to the Fab Four concerts or male reaction at certain Heavy Metal concerts.
Analysing sound, as opposed to music, is not something most women find interesting (not something they can't do just something they don't feel they want to do). HiFi, in particular isn't interesting to most women but music certainly is.
I recently returned to valve amplifiers and fullrange speakers after 25 years of solid state amplifiers and multiple driver speakers. My wife, who loves music, now tells her friends that I have finally given up HiFi and now just play music!
Sometimes less is more... and women, in general, have stayed at the heart of music - it's emotional content and context.
ciao
James
and women certainly experience that the same way that men do (within the normal wide human lvariation).
James,
In all fairness, I believe that statement begs the question.
It is my contention, or at the very least suspicion, that if, in fact, women to a greater degree than men are primarily VISUALLY stimulated creatures, then by default, their ability to focus accurately on reproduced sound would necessarily be compromised.
For us audiophiles, when it comes to speaker design, the accurate reproduction of sound is the primary goal and the overall appearence of the finished project, although important, is secondary, but our ladies will always sacrifice sound for appearence.
Take a look around your own place and count the number of non-functional dust collectors that reside there. How many colorfull throw pillows do you need to remove before you can crawl between your sheets each night?
Today, more and more women are getting involved into woodworking hobbys, furniture building, home remodeling etc. So much so that Home Depot is now offering free classes to women in the proper use of power tools. Woodworking mags. are seeing huge increases in their female subscription base but not so with Speaker Builder or even Sterophile.
In my experience, women tend to value those activities in life which involve them emotionally over all others. It would seem to follow then that if they responded emotionally the same way that we do to the accurate reproduction of music that a good sound system offers, we would see many more ladies involved in our hobby.
Just a thought
CHUCK
James,
In all fairness, I believe that statement begs the question.
It is my contention, or at the very least suspicion, that if, in fact, women to a greater degree than men are primarily VISUALLY stimulated creatures, then by default, their ability to focus accurately on reproduced sound would necessarily be compromised.
For us audiophiles, when it comes to speaker design, the accurate reproduction of sound is the primary goal and the overall appearence of the finished project, although important, is secondary, but our ladies will always sacrifice sound for appearence.
Take a look around your own place and count the number of non-functional dust collectors that reside there. How many colorfull throw pillows do you need to remove before you can crawl between your sheets each night?
Today, more and more women are getting involved into woodworking hobbys, furniture building, home remodeling etc. So much so that Home Depot is now offering free classes to women in the proper use of power tools. Woodworking mags. are seeing huge increases in their female subscription base but not so with Speaker Builder or even Sterophile.
In my experience, women tend to value those activities in life which involve them emotionally over all others. It would seem to follow then that if they responded emotionally the same way that we do to the accurate reproduction of music that a good sound system offers, we would see many more ladies involved in our hobby.
Just a thought
CHUCK
Hi Chuck,
Well, I guess I didn't justify the statement....
I'm buried at work today and my music and acoustic perception files are in a different country - but essentially they show that men and women experience music the same way and hear sounds the same way but that there is some difference in the emotional reaction to low frequencies and loud noises. In general women don't like low frequency noises or loud noises as much as men - and this is more pronounced the older women get.
The evidence also supports women as reacting to music emotionally at least as much as men and tends to show very slightly higher response from women.
There actually is quite a bit of evidence that suggests that men are more visual tham women...
I had to do quite a bit of digging for all this a few years back when I was examining the relative importance of video and audio for getting rational and emotional responses from men and women - this was related to how well advertising works.
I'm afraid most Hi-Fi are rather poor at emotional engagement. They are very good at audio reproduction and poor at music reproduction...Took me 20+ years of professional life to discover this...
Conclusion - if you want to get laid - play her emotionally loaded music at average level in a quiet, private location...
Alright! I made the last bit up!
ciao
James.
Well, I guess I didn't justify the statement....
I'm buried at work today and my music and acoustic perception files are in a different country - but essentially they show that men and women experience music the same way and hear sounds the same way but that there is some difference in the emotional reaction to low frequencies and loud noises. In general women don't like low frequency noises or loud noises as much as men - and this is more pronounced the older women get.
The evidence also supports women as reacting to music emotionally at least as much as men and tends to show very slightly higher response from women.
There actually is quite a bit of evidence that suggests that men are more visual tham women...
I had to do quite a bit of digging for all this a few years back when I was examining the relative importance of video and audio for getting rational and emotional responses from men and women - this was related to how well advertising works.
I'm afraid most Hi-Fi are rather poor at emotional engagement. They are very good at audio reproduction and poor at music reproduction...Took me 20+ years of professional life to discover this...
Conclusion - if you want to get laid - play her emotionally loaded music at average level in a quiet, private location...
Alright! I made the last bit up!
ciao
James.
I'm afraid most Hi-Fi are rather poor at emotional engagement. They are very good at audio reproduction and poor at music reproduction...Took me 20+ years of professional life to discover this...
James,
Not sure just what you are saying here. (most Hi-Fi DIYers) or (Hi-Fi systems)or ????
If in fact, differences between men and women don't exist, then how do we explain the fact that our hobby is essentially devoid of females???
Chuck
James,
Not sure just what you are saying here. (most Hi-Fi DIYers) or (Hi-Fi systems)or ????
If in fact, differences between men and women don't exist, then how do we explain the fact that our hobby is essentially devoid of females???
Chuck
Most girls/women are perfectly happy with a crappy boombox as long as it plays their CD's and tapes. Guys see a home audio system and fall in love with it. Big transformers, beefy heatsinks, massive capacitors, huge subs etc. Most girls would use these as flower stands. I can tell you that my mom absolutely hates large speakers and exposed wires. My room looks like Circuit City on crack (homemade subs, 2-ways, amps etc) but my friends love it When I get married, the woman will have to know that there will be no compromises when it comes to the sound system and the garage The girl I'm with now thinks all this audio stuff is a huge turn on, she loves it. She can definately tell the difference, she's a keeper 😉
You answered your own question, there are differences. Explain why the knitting hobby is essentially devoid of men. If you're lucky enough, you'll find a girl whose brain is wired the same way yours is 🙂
Simple maths as to the why
In my experience, of the people I know generally:
For 90% music is just aural wallpaper. (my term) These are the people who have background music that's just there (like the wallpaper). If it's a song they like, they enjoy it and it doesn't matter much if it's radio, tape, cd, lp, mp3 dvd or whatever.
Around 4% kind of care about sound. Boomboxes sound kind of crappy and they aren't really taken with the sound of cassette. They would like a bit more bass and dynamics in their system and are aware that stereo imaging exists (not just that it's different from left to right). Probably still don't mind MP3.
About 1 in 20 or 5% care about music in a hifi kind of way. They tweak occasionally, listen for soundstage, tone, prat etc and care about their music. Music listening is some thing they do as an activity, it's not another thing in the background.
OK, so 5% of the people I know care about music in a hifi way.
So on average for you and your partner to care about music in a hifi way you have to care (5%) and you ought to have found a 1 in 20 partner who does too (0.25%).
In a sample of 2000 audiophiles I expect you'd find that about 5 of them have partners who are just as passionate as they are.
FWIW, of the, say 50 women who I'd classify as work colleagues or friends (my wife included):
1 is an audiophile of the vinyl and SE triode persuasion
2 personally own turntables (includes the 1 above)
4 make critical comments about the sound of components (includes the 2 above) (and not just when they want to go out!)
And if I ditched my wife (no plans at all to do so) and hooked up with the female friend who had the SE's and the TT we'd probably just get into arguments as to who got to sit in the sweet spot BUT we'd be one of those 0.25%. (till my current wife found and killed me anyhow)
Happy listening
Drew
In my experience, of the people I know generally:
For 90% music is just aural wallpaper. (my term) These are the people who have background music that's just there (like the wallpaper). If it's a song they like, they enjoy it and it doesn't matter much if it's radio, tape, cd, lp, mp3 dvd or whatever.
Around 4% kind of care about sound. Boomboxes sound kind of crappy and they aren't really taken with the sound of cassette. They would like a bit more bass and dynamics in their system and are aware that stereo imaging exists (not just that it's different from left to right). Probably still don't mind MP3.
About 1 in 20 or 5% care about music in a hifi kind of way. They tweak occasionally, listen for soundstage, tone, prat etc and care about their music. Music listening is some thing they do as an activity, it's not another thing in the background.
OK, so 5% of the people I know care about music in a hifi way.
So on average for you and your partner to care about music in a hifi way you have to care (5%) and you ought to have found a 1 in 20 partner who does too (0.25%).
In a sample of 2000 audiophiles I expect you'd find that about 5 of them have partners who are just as passionate as they are.
FWIW, of the, say 50 women who I'd classify as work colleagues or friends (my wife included):
1 is an audiophile of the vinyl and SE triode persuasion
2 personally own turntables (includes the 1 above)
4 make critical comments about the sound of components (includes the 2 above) (and not just when they want to go out!)
And if I ditched my wife (no plans at all to do so) and hooked up with the female friend who had the SE's and the TT we'd probably just get into arguments as to who got to sit in the sweet spot BUT we'd be one of those 0.25%. (till my current wife found and killed me anyhow)
Happy listening
Drew
That 0.25% is a random figure 🙂 Perhaps audio nerds are drawn to each other raising the percentage substantially 🙂
Strange Animals...
Most women view an expensive stereo system as denied new wardrobe, shoes and overseas holiday, house improvements or better car.
If a hifi is good enough to hear and understand the vocals clearly enough, then most women are satisfied, and more expenditure than that is perilous.
If your hifi sounds at all harsh or glary and annoyingly so to her, then you are in for big trouble.
Of course not all women subscribe to this view, but those who don't are rare, and if you find one that can enjoy a real system playing real music, then you are lucky.
Interestingly I have customers who are for example devout Elvis fans, and they invariably listen on an old 3in1, and not serious hi-fi - these types listen to the lyrics and the melodies, and not the reproduction.
Many women are like this - ever noticed how women will get up and dance to the worst reproduction on the planet, and most men won't (until the alcohol kicks in !) ?.
Most women's hearing is fundamentally different to mens also I reckon - my GF is director of a large childcare center, and she tells me that from her office she can identify the cries of any of her children, and further determine the nature of the cry - alarm, pain, fun etc.
Also women are typically adept at partaking in one conversation, listening to several others, and keeping an ear out for what the children are up to - this is a hardwired feature of the female brain from studies that I have read.
In my experience most women appreciate and enjoy a good sounding system, but it is not high on their list of priorities - more the opposite.
That said, a good and comfortable sounding system can enhance domestic bliss and personal relationships.
If for nothing more than purely selfish reasons, I have a very nice system installed at my GF's place - works for me.
Eric.
Most women view an expensive stereo system as denied new wardrobe, shoes and overseas holiday, house improvements or better car.
If a hifi is good enough to hear and understand the vocals clearly enough, then most women are satisfied, and more expenditure than that is perilous.
If your hifi sounds at all harsh or glary and annoyingly so to her, then you are in for big trouble.
Of course not all women subscribe to this view, but those who don't are rare, and if you find one that can enjoy a real system playing real music, then you are lucky.
Interestingly I have customers who are for example devout Elvis fans, and they invariably listen on an old 3in1, and not serious hi-fi - these types listen to the lyrics and the melodies, and not the reproduction.
Many women are like this - ever noticed how women will get up and dance to the worst reproduction on the planet, and most men won't (until the alcohol kicks in !) ?.
Most women's hearing is fundamentally different to mens also I reckon - my GF is director of a large childcare center, and she tells me that from her office she can identify the cries of any of her children, and further determine the nature of the cry - alarm, pain, fun etc.
Also women are typically adept at partaking in one conversation, listening to several others, and keeping an ear out for what the children are up to - this is a hardwired feature of the female brain from studies that I have read.
In my experience most women appreciate and enjoy a good sounding system, but it is not high on their list of priorities - more the opposite.
That said, a good and comfortable sounding system can enhance domestic bliss and personal relationships.
If for nothing more than purely selfish reasons, I have a very nice system installed at my GF's place - works for me.
Eric.
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