Maybe not. Standard tests do not test for dynamics accuracy. Only steady state test tones are used.
Speaking of psychology, that can work both ways. You appear to believe a number of things that could be viewed unscientific.
Good to know but I think a bit OT here as we are trying to compare DACs that measures well.
Wouldn't the idea be to find two well measuring dacs that are likely to sound different? Different chips, different price points, different reviews, different circuit topologies.
Before, I mentioned Benchmark DAC-3 and Topping D90. They are two very different topologies and two different dac chips. DAC-3 has several clocks in it, IIRC it might have been seven. D90 is more typical, but has wider noise skirts than most. Since ASR does not measure noise skirts, for our purposes I would argue it "measures well."
Also, wasn't a link posted earlier in this thread to an $80 dac that is USB powered, yet measures well? That's just asking for trouble, since an AP probably has cleaner USB power and fewer ground loops than most real-world systems.
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The idea of black boxes that just measure well is abandoned?
To many it would be far more interesting to not know beforehand what is inside, what “insert important name here” thinks of it and what it costs. This to prevent unscientific expectations. All the specifics and details like noise skirts should not matter really.
To many it would be far more interesting to not know beforehand what is inside, what “insert important name here” thinks of it and what it costs. This to prevent unscientific expectations. All the specifics and details like noise skirts should not matter really.
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What does it matter if the testing in blind?
Is your interest to try to confirm the ASR theory that good measurements always imply audibly transparent? If not, then what?
Is your interest to try to confirm the ASR theory that good measurements always imply audibly transparent? If not, then what?
I’ve no doubt, that app. note, ‘cookbook’ designed DACs would sound alike. So, not all listening comparisons may reveal an audible difference. It logically follows that if there is a difference to be found, it will be between DACs which essentially measure the same in the usual audio parameters, but differ significantly in their design and implementation.
I don't think he was speaking directly to you. Sounds like you had fun creating your own DAC.
That doesnt really make sense. If they measure the same it doesnt really matter how they got there, they achieved the required level of technical ability.
Hmm, let’s try to explain how much sense do that equal measurements have.
We’ll compare two objects by their weight and volume, upon working theory that those two measurements are enough to check if those two objects are equal. So, we have one cube and one ball, made of the same substance, that measure equal by weight and volume, so they are indistinguishable on the ultimate measuring devices for weight and volume. But, hey, why do they look different?
This is exactly what Amir is doing at ASR. He just decided that SINAD is enough to describe everything about audio device.
Good point - The OP does not include these so price points, etc should not be considered in the evaluation - can unusually influence judgement of a highly subjective matter
If the testing is blind, what do other factors matter?
Maybe I misunderstand what "the evaluation" is to consist of? I'm not even clear what evaluation would be involved. Evaluation in the selection of dacs to be blind tested? Some other evaluation?
EDIT: Personally, I would like to blind compare SMSL D-6S, versus Mola Tambaqui, versus some other as yet undecided dac that measures well (a Benchmark DAC-3 would do). There is this subjective feeling that SINAD may not be the ideal predictor of having achieved audible transparency.
Maybe I misunderstand what "the evaluation" is to consist of? I'm not even clear what evaluation would be involved. Evaluation in the selection of dacs to be blind tested? Some other evaluation?
EDIT: Personally, I would like to blind compare SMSL D-6S, versus Mola Tambaqui, versus some other as yet undecided dac that measures well (a Benchmark DAC-3 would do). There is this subjective feeling that SINAD may not be the ideal predictor of having achieved audible transparency.
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Perhaps start a blog where all these can be viewed easily🙂
For me unless evidently disproved , ASR findings are a good measure
Of course, keeping an open mind. ASR’s SINAD is an interesting measure for a particular performance but does not tell everything especially with dynamics of sound etc
I think the products seem like a good choice. If a serious test could be established with enough statistical approach (both in terms of participants and correlation criteria), the result would be truly interesting.
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