can DACs sound different if they both measure well?

can DACs sound different of they both measure well?

  • Yes, I know I can hear the difference

    Votes: 69 45.7%

  • I think I can hear differences sometimes

    Votes: 26 17.2%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 18 11.9%

  • No, they will sound the same

    Votes: 38 25.2%
  • Total voters
    151
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#322
Nico Ras said:
The problem is with a DAC that does not have a output level control, you cannot set in to -3dB maybe on the remote it is possible, but I lost mine years ago and it is in DAC mode not pre-amp mode. I would have liked to understand your three signals, and their purpose but my DAC is stuck at 0dB in DAC mode. What I could do however is to use Equalizer APO software on the PC which is at the very front end of the HP audio decoding chip through bios reduce overall gain by 3dB, that should do it and just leave it at that setting? Now explain what you think I should be hearing. I did guess right though, I heard amplitude modulation. But not sure what to conclude by it.
Click to expand...

As written in the pdf file intersampleEN.pdf in the zip:

"In order to check whether a DAC has headroom for intersample overshoots:
1. Listen to the normalized file sin11025Hz14700Hznorm16b.wav (at a moderate volume!)
2. Compare the sound to that of the file without normalization, sin11025Hz14700Hz16b.wav. If this file sound softer but otherwise very similar, apparently there is a headroom of at least 1.48 dB...1.87 dB.
3. Also compare it to sin11025Hz14700Hznorm16b_r8b_r8b_att.wav. This file is full of intermodulation: it has been clipped by r8brain, converted back to the original sample rate and slightly attenuated. If the sound in step 1 is more similar to step 3 than to step 2, there is an intersample overshoot problem."

Regarding 1, it has to be done without any digital attenuation, but at a moderate analogue volume setting to prevent damage to your ears and tweeters. The way the files were made is also explained in detail in the pdf file.
 
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#323
Markw4 said:
Pure BS. Over there, only DonH56 understands dacs. The other so-called technical experts, not so much.
Click to expand...
Here are couple of quotes you should really learn from:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/bob-cordells-power-amplifier-book.171159/post-4179112
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/burn-in-for-fresh-builds.415833/post-7756684
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-black-hole.349926/post-6866706

SIY@ASR (SY over here) is a well-respected expert and contributor both at ASR and here. BTW also an ex-moderator here. What he commented on your thread at ASR was spot on.

Markw4 said:
I'm talking about stuff most of them don't understand.
Click to expand...
I guess most of us don't want to understand what you talk. How about you tell us more about intermittent packing flooding?
 
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#324
That is, the file sin11025Hz14700Hz16b.wav is just a softer version of sin11025Hz14700Hznorm16b.wav, while sin11025Hz14700Hznorm16b_r8b_r8b_att.wav has the kind of clipping you would get if you played sin11025Hz14700Hznorm16b.wav through a DAC with no headroom at all for intersample overshoots.
 
#325
bohrok2610 said:
How about you tell us more about intermittent packing flooding?
Click to expand...

How about you and Mark stop having the same discussion at nauseam in each and every DAC thread? Mark doesn't believe in the relevance of your measurements and you don't believe in the relevance of his listening tests. Get over it, as nothing is likely to change that.
 
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#326
The constructive solution could be to develop something together. A device the members can actually build instead of reading discussions or looking at graphs. Best DIY DAC ever confirmed both by measurements and by listening tests by 2 knowledgable members sounds promising 🙂

I can do the Group Buy.
 
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#332
“Giving something back to the world” 😉

Eternal fame….

Otherwise it are just words and graphs on a forum.

I did not wonder too much what was in it for myself when I did such a thing. Except satisfaction of my curiosity.
 
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#333
I have nothing against giving something back to the world. Just order a new SilentSwitcher if you want something from me. I just questioned the need to develop something together when I already have a design that I find subjectively the best I've heard.
 
#334
As said it would be something materialized as a diyaudio.com project beneficial to forum members instead of reading endless quarelling by the same 2 persons that both seem to have designed excellent stuff. What is in it for us?

No I don’t want anything battery fed.

Something tells me you thought the same about the previous one and another new one coming up 🙂 Hence the suggestion.
 
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#336
No my personal interest is not lab perfect measuring stuff but well sounding stuff with as least as possible features. Preferably built into a source with ergonomical operation and a good app. So definitely not a separate box as that does not bring too much joy. Of course with good PSUs. Not batteries, batteries are not beneficial in too many aspects.

But that was not the subject.
 
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#339
Perhaps the model for two people who disagree coming together and finding agreement was the paper by Kahneman and Klein: https://www.scribd.com/document/437481248/Failure-to-Disagree-pdf

One of the main obstacles for doing that is that the two people should best meet in person and work out what collaboration to pursue. Getting to know each other without at least some minimal personal interaction would risk leaving existing misunderstandings about motivation and personality intact.
 
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