It's a very pervasive and oft-repeated myth so it remains plausible to the layman!
NareshBrd said:
Actually, it is a data storage device...the same date can be stored in other media.
A flash drive costing $5 for example. But as wiseoldtech said, it's a market, and I'm happy for people to pay whatever they want for this sort of bling. I'll even tolerate them telling me how much better it is than a flash drive too. Up to a point.
Actually, it is a data storage device...the same date can be stored in other media.
A flash drive costing $5 for example. But as wiseoldtech said, it's a market, and I'm happy for people to pay whatever they want for this sort of bling. I'll even tolerate them telling me how much better it is than a flash drive too. Up to a point.
A most interesting thread that raises questions about perfect and immortal data storage!
As an Engineer, I believe that data encryption is perfectable. Alas the plastic medium may decay in the long run.
In fact the Voyager spacecraft carries an LP recording of our planet.
My sister gave me this perspex desktop tidy device about 50 years ago. It still survives despite a slight crack from being dropped.
I leave it to you, if Leonard Cohen's songs, too, are immortal. TBH, nothing lasts forever. How it is. We move on.
As an Engineer, I believe that data encryption is perfectable. Alas the plastic medium may decay in the long run.
In fact the Voyager spacecraft carries an LP recording of our planet.
My sister gave me this perspex desktop tidy device about 50 years ago. It still survives despite a slight crack from being dropped.
I leave it to you, if Leonard Cohen's songs, too, are immortal. TBH, nothing lasts forever. How it is. We move on.
The Voyager LPs are a fascinating subject. Some little-known facts are: NASA thoughtfully sent along phono cartridges to save the aliens time and trouble in fabricating them. A turntable was too large to ship, though. The records themselves are not vinyl, but rather gold-plated copper; and they spin at 16+ 2/3rds rpm.
Lots of info here: https://thetannhausergate.com/index...-mind-john-marks-guest-lecture-preparation-4/
amb,
john
I understand the allure of overpriced collectibles. I also have a strong sense for value. Somewhere in there the twain is met, just not in CDs.
I have no problem with your position... .
It's funny, most "audiophiles" seem not to know much at all about how CRAZY the world of 78rpm collecting is.
Here's a comparison or two: An early UK EMI 33.33 rpm David Oistrakh encore pieces LP is a $2000 to $3000 LP, all day, every day. A Velvet Underground 1st pressing LP is a $6000 LP.
WHEREAS, a Tommy Johnson Paramount 78rpm "Alcohol and Jake Blues" fetched more than $37,000--for a 78 rpm. A Charlie Patton Vocalian 78 rpm will fetch between $10,000 and $25,000.
The only rock phonodiscs to get up in the $20,000+ range are an acetate of Velvet Underground at $25,000+, and a Misfits "Legacy ofBrutality" LP at $22,000+.
Collectors are funny.
amb,
john
I'm not sure there's such a thing as an overpriced collectible. It's worth whatever someone's prepared to pay for it.
Once people start collecting as an investment all the rules about value change, because it moves from present value to future value...
78's are fragile and attrition has made them rare and they also have the 'advantage' of being something that went though a long period where no-one thought they had any worth at all. I used to know a guy who collected 78's (this was 30 years ago) because he liked Jazz and 78's were the only way to get to hear some of the recordings. He got me a copy of "woodman spare that tree" to replace my father's copy that I'd broken when I was a kid. It made a nice birthday present. It cost £5...
Once people start collecting as an investment all the rules about value change, because it moves from present value to future value...
78's are fragile and attrition has made them rare and they also have the 'advantage' of being something that went though a long period where no-one thought they had any worth at all. I used to know a guy who collected 78's (this was 30 years ago) because he liked Jazz and 78's were the only way to get to hear some of the recordings. He got me a copy of "woodman spare that tree" to replace my father's copy that I'd broken when I was a kid. It made a nice birthday present. It cost £5...
Well, a factor in the US was that US Black culture moved away from the raw Blues and so the demand was week, because it was only a literal handful of White guys in the pre- and post-WWII era who cared about that music.
When US Black people got disposable income, they were more likely to buy new LPs from Ella Fitzgerald or Miles Davis or Nat King Cole, rather than hunt for 78s of Kid Ory's various bands. (Trivia bit: Kid Ory hired Louis Armstrong for one of his early bands, and how about that? Ory was my father's favorite jazz musician.)
What changed that was the Library of Congress's "Anthology of American Folk Music" 6-LP set (1952), which eventually led to the UK Blues Revival, which drove up the price of the old 78rpms.
cheerio,
john
Nearly every traditional collectible I'm aware of went through a long period of minimal to no worth. It's the ones manufactured in deliberately limited quantities and targeted to niche interest groups with questionable durable worth. We (and by that I mean the royal we) just got through one of those little episodes in the form of NFTs, for example.
Of course something, anything is 'worth' whatever the market will bear, but that's a very narrow and utilitarian definition of worth. So narrow in fact that it doesn't really apply to the realm of collectibles. Very few collectors buy based solely on expectations of price appreciation. I certainly don't. I derive pleasure from ownership that is completely divorced from any concept of monetary value or reward. And if I owned a first pressing of a Velvet Underground LP, I'd for sure be playing it, so I don't think I'm really cut out to be an LP collector by the narrow definition of having expectations of price appreciation.
(besides I've dropped & scratched two of my 'most collectible' LPs in the last few months, so)
You're probably thinking of brostep, the commercially acclaimed evil twin of deeper-rooted dubstep.
Anyway, I'm thinking that for that amount of money you could make a dedicated, headless, fanless PC with a redundant solid state storage containing the digital data that went on that CD, even beyond redbook standard, integrated with an R2R DAC with bit-perfect decoding and digital volume control.
I have given up CDs years ago, it's either purely digital or on vinyl. That CD is more of an anachronism than vinyl in my opinion.
Classic dung as exotic, really.
I forgot that they used glass masters in the plastic injection mold tools for pre recorded CDs, it was a process somewhat similar to pressing vinyl.
Somebody must have coated those masters, and presented them as exotic.
And this followed, NOS or scrap from a recording or processing plant, duly dressed up.
There were units making glass masters, a typical product was the free CD with computer magazines...remember those?
That product is no more, but the equipment is still around.
And this happened.
I forgot that they used glass masters in the plastic injection mold tools for pre recorded CDs, it was a process somewhat similar to pressing vinyl.
Somebody must have coated those masters, and presented them as exotic.
And this followed, NOS or scrap from a recording or processing plant, duly dressed up.
There were units making glass masters, a typical product was the free CD with computer magazines...remember those?
That product is no more, but the equipment is still around.
And this happened.
I'm sorry sir, but that's not how it works.
A glass master is made as the first step in producing the "stamper" which is then loaded into the injection molding machine to produce discs.
None of these masters can be simply be "coated" and sold as a disc or even played in a regular CD/DVD player, if that's what you are implying.
I know from experience by working as an engineer in an optical disc replication facility.
The IMPEX product the OP mentions is CD made from glass instead of the usual poly-carbonate, which is a completely different thing than a "glass master".
As long as you keep CDs out of extreme heat, humidity and UV, they last indefinitely. Polycarbonate is a very stable material. The problem is the aluminum vapor deposit layer under lacquer film. As long as they're not stored under extreme conditions, they're going to last at least several decades.
All of my 5000+ CDs play perfectly. I remember back in the early 80s when they came out, some "experts" predicted they'd become unreadable after 10-15 years. 40 yrs later and mine are all still going strong.
I will add this disclaimer - CD rom drives that spin upwards of 40x will cause strain on the lacquer layer. That speed causes the disc to deform under harmonic imbalances and can make it fracture. I don't ever put my CDs in CD rom drives reading higher than 16x. I have special drives that are limited to 8x for transfer and I wouldn't want to use any higher speed anyways due to error rates. The transfers I have done are reliable up to 8x without post verification. The errors at higher speeds are usually due to disc warpage, which the laser focus coil can't follow.
All of my 5000+ CDs play perfectly. I remember back in the early 80s when they came out, some "experts" predicted they'd become unreadable after 10-15 years. 40 yrs later and mine are all still going strong.
I will add this disclaimer - CD rom drives that spin upwards of 40x will cause strain on the lacquer layer. That speed causes the disc to deform under harmonic imbalances and can make it fracture. I don't ever put my CDs in CD rom drives reading higher than 16x. I have special drives that are limited to 8x for transfer and I wouldn't want to use any higher speed anyways due to error rates. The transfers I have done are reliable up to 8x without post verification. The errors at higher speeds are usually due to disc warpage, which the laser focus coil can't follow.
"CD" and "interesting", yes.
On the other hand, it's really good to see the melting-glass-in-church-windows myth debunked. I really believed that one. And Iain M Banks wrote a story about it.
I can handle the idea. First, because Delmoni‘s signature perhaps adds an unpredictable future market value to the set. Second, the very low volume, made by hand nature of the release undoubtedly represents an exponential increase in production cost. Probably not justifying a $1,200 retail, but many times greater than for even an ‘audiophile’ release CD. Lastly, to persons of average annual income, spending $1,200 for CD seems ridiculous. To someone with a seven or eight figure annual income, however, it’s pocket change.