Yeah.... strange things all the time..always inspecting waveform monitor
Video tape machines was very unstable...some open hell machines you needed to touch the hells to lock the sync..when unstable... to stabilize them you had to clean the routating heads touching it with your fingers or spreading Freón on them (we used those early days)...we had buttons to control the synchronism, the horizontal and vertical..swithes to bypass to enter the automatic or manual adjustment..we used to acelerate and decelerate the heel speed, braking it with our fingers or acelerating them turning the heavy hells with our hands..giving a hand to the motors.
The image i could see was not that way..but without focus, an interesting shadown bellow the waveform.....nice image... a pitty that has burned transistors...i felt the image lovely to be watching.
Here an image.... i captures in the internet..just to remind me.....not the same...was alike a ghost under the square wave...the strange thing was that did not created deformation, loss of shape in the square wave..alike another signal superimposed...alike a carrier.... a many times high frequency carrier.
I will promisse..will try to make it appear with that transformer and will make pictures....maybe i am receiving transmissions from another world.
I do not know really..if i hate theories because i cannot understand them, or if i cannot (do not want) to understand them because i hate them.
I have entered the TV Globo, the biggest Brazilian Network, in the seventies...i was candidate to learn video tape operation, to pull the buttons and replace video tapes (Open reel) very fast..also we had to be fast to fix the hell thing, fast to replace the tapes and to adjust the machine and to position the machine 8 seconds before the image and to sent the remote control to the Master Controller..... we had to equalize heads (routating magnetic heads)... to edit tape, cutting and using liquid to see the frame pulses...also electronic edition using editor and the traditional copy system...copying images in the needed sequence... that's was the edition, controling 2 enormous machines, more than 2 meters high, from Ampex... edition was copy the left machine images to the rigth one..then i enter the Master Controller...was a Television Director, operating the Master switcher..the video switcher, the television output, the last point before the transmitter (Audio following video switcher)..... I moved to south of the country, to a German town, then i was promoted to be the television second man, the boss or enginnering area (operational area)... my boss was the Director.... and them, higher than this man was the Television owner.... a Congressman.... here in Brazil only Congressman have television stations..good to re-election (sadly).
Then i enter a service of manpower trainment.... an enormous company, maintained by the Industry, to produce trainment, to prepare people to work inside industries...to prepare electronic people, electricists, to fix plumbing, to paint, to produce concrete and constructions, to work with wood...and i have constructed, designed and trained people to operate equipments..was a television studio.... not connected to the air..no transmitter...out output, final product, were video tapes to help people to learn...the courses where free..if you was clever, then you could finish in advance the others.... you had classes and movies and videotapes to see...i was producing video tapes to trainment...we had 500 schools all over the country and hundreds of video tape players and television monitors.
Then i entered Sony.... visited Japan...has studied there and got back to sell Broadcasting products to the television stations...North and Northeast o Brasil was my responsability.
Was a nice adventure... alike everybody i miss the good old days.
regards,
Carlos
Video tape machines was very unstable...some open hell machines you needed to touch the hells to lock the sync..when unstable... to stabilize them you had to clean the routating heads touching it with your fingers or spreading Freón on them (we used those early days)...we had buttons to control the synchronism, the horizontal and vertical..swithes to bypass to enter the automatic or manual adjustment..we used to acelerate and decelerate the heel speed, braking it with our fingers or acelerating them turning the heavy hells with our hands..giving a hand to the motors.
The image i could see was not that way..but without focus, an interesting shadown bellow the waveform.....nice image... a pitty that has burned transistors...i felt the image lovely to be watching.
Here an image.... i captures in the internet..just to remind me.....not the same...was alike a ghost under the square wave...the strange thing was that did not created deformation, loss of shape in the square wave..alike another signal superimposed...alike a carrier.... a many times high frequency carrier.
I will promisse..will try to make it appear with that transformer and will make pictures....maybe i am receiving transmissions from another world.
I do not know really..if i hate theories because i cannot understand them, or if i cannot (do not want) to understand them because i hate them.
I have entered the TV Globo, the biggest Brazilian Network, in the seventies...i was candidate to learn video tape operation, to pull the buttons and replace video tapes (Open reel) very fast..also we had to be fast to fix the hell thing, fast to replace the tapes and to adjust the machine and to position the machine 8 seconds before the image and to sent the remote control to the Master Controller..... we had to equalize heads (routating magnetic heads)... to edit tape, cutting and using liquid to see the frame pulses...also electronic edition using editor and the traditional copy system...copying images in the needed sequence... that's was the edition, controling 2 enormous machines, more than 2 meters high, from Ampex... edition was copy the left machine images to the rigth one..then i enter the Master Controller...was a Television Director, operating the Master switcher..the video switcher, the television output, the last point before the transmitter (Audio following video switcher)..... I moved to south of the country, to a German town, then i was promoted to be the television second man, the boss or enginnering area (operational area)... my boss was the Director.... and them, higher than this man was the Television owner.... a Congressman.... here in Brazil only Congressman have television stations..good to re-election (sadly).
Then i enter a service of manpower trainment.... an enormous company, maintained by the Industry, to produce trainment, to prepare people to work inside industries...to prepare electronic people, electricists, to fix plumbing, to paint, to produce concrete and constructions, to work with wood...and i have constructed, designed and trained people to operate equipments..was a television studio.... not connected to the air..no transmitter...out output, final product, were video tapes to help people to learn...the courses where free..if you was clever, then you could finish in advance the others.... you had classes and movies and videotapes to see...i was producing video tapes to trainment...we had 500 schools all over the country and hundreds of video tape players and television monitors.
Then i entered Sony.... visited Japan...has studied there and got back to sell Broadcasting products to the television stations...North and Northeast o Brasil was my responsability.
Was a nice adventure... alike everybody i miss the good old days.
regards,
Carlos
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That brings back memories for sure. A favourite saying of mine was that "the whites are crushed"... you know what I mean... the effect on the TV screen.
All you can do is try and see if anything shows on the waveforms...
That's it for tonight for me 🙂
All you can do is try and see if anything shows on the waveforms...
That's it for tonight for me 🙂
hehehe...i am glad you like it dear Mooly.
No more beefs in my life..because of you!
here the image...that's was my first job.... the one in the picture is not me..but the machine and the worried expression was the same.
You can see the "ghost"..the waveform showing two horizontal lines.
regards,
Carlos
No more beefs in my life..because of you!
here the image...that's was my first job.... the one in the picture is not me..but the machine and the worried expression was the same.
You can see the "ghost"..the waveform showing two horizontal lines.
regards,
Carlos
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I think so, have helped me a lot the courses, the studies made in Ikegami Camera
Ampex Video Tape machines, Sony audio and video equipment...digital editors and 1 inch professional the modern to the eigthies video tape machines.
Also 34 years as Radio Amateur have helped me a lot..building transmitters and heavy duty supplies.... modifications in PLL and CB radio multiplication in operative channels..also 40 meters units too.
You know, dear Mooly, i have to say... i am feeling fear, scared, to connect "that" transformer, that toroidal one, together the brand new Dx Blame ST - 55V unit.....i think i will do it using the lower voltage secondary ... the one gives me 39 unloaded volts (symetrical of course).... i really think it will destroy my beloved amplifier...again and again.
I will test the resistances in series with the secondary and also resistances in series with the filter condensers..some capacitor in the bridge rectifier...also will try to modulate the secondary using a transistor in series with one of the transformer output side...from ground to one extreme..will use transistor in series with a resistance.... i think i will have to provide DC for the transistor..and injecting audio in the base to see if i will have modulation in the other half coil..i think i will waste my time..for sure i will have modulation..also in the primary i will have reflected modulation.
regards,
Carlos
Ampex Video Tape machines, Sony audio and video equipment...digital editors and 1 inch professional the modern to the eigthies video tape machines.
Also 34 years as Radio Amateur have helped me a lot..building transmitters and heavy duty supplies.... modifications in PLL and CB radio multiplication in operative channels..also 40 meters units too.
You know, dear Mooly, i have to say... i am feeling fear, scared, to connect "that" transformer, that toroidal one, together the brand new Dx Blame ST - 55V unit.....i think i will do it using the lower voltage secondary ... the one gives me 39 unloaded volts (symetrical of course).... i really think it will destroy my beloved amplifier...again and again.
I will test the resistances in series with the secondary and also resistances in series with the filter condensers..some capacitor in the bridge rectifier...also will try to modulate the secondary using a transistor in series with one of the transformer output side...from ground to one extreme..will use transistor in series with a resistance.... i think i will have to provide DC for the transistor..and injecting audio in the base to see if i will have modulation in the other half coil..i think i will waste my time..for sure i will have modulation..also in the primary i will have reflected modulation.
regards,
Carlos
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Stop blaming the transformer, the amplifier destroys itself, maybe because the rails sag less with the toroid, maybe because of a ground loop issue at RF made worse by high pri-sec winding capacitance 😀
I have faced many "it fails too quickly, no time for measuring" problems. In SMPS and class D things happen that way most of the time.
That's why my latest class D amplifier includes a shorted MOSFET detector that shuts down the circuit within 300ns, before damage goes one step further. Gate drive is protected with fast fuses too.
A similar solution for class AB are VI limiters. They can keep output transistors within SOA, thus giving some time for measuring things.
You have reached the point where your electronics dogmas are seriously limting you.
No way to go further without killing these dogmas 😉
I have faced many "it fails too quickly, no time for measuring" problems. In SMPS and class D things happen that way most of the time.
That's why my latest class D amplifier includes a shorted MOSFET detector that shuts down the circuit within 300ns, before damage goes one step further. Gate drive is protected with fast fuses too.
A similar solution for class AB are VI limiters. They can keep output transistors within SOA, thus giving some time for measuring things.
You have reached the point where your electronics dogmas are seriously limting you.
No way to go further without killing these dogmas 😉
Why not put 1-2 ohm (10W) in series with the supply lines to approximate your other transformer that probably has higher source impedance. If it does oscillate the current limiting might save some devices. You could also use smaller fuses while you are testing. Best would be a lab power supply with fast current limiting. Have you run them from a regulated supply? I do think that Eva is on the right track.
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Carlos... I have been re reading your first posts.
Certainly try the test with the transistor and modulation... maybe feed the base from your signal generator at 1 to 10 khz for example. See if anything unexpected shows.
Then I think you have to try again... this time have as much test gear wired up ready. Monitor the rails with a DVM, have the scope on the rails too, then slowly increase the drive to the amp.
Does the amp have to be supplying a low load impedance for the troubles to start ?
and how near to clipping is it. Maybe try 100 ohm load, then 47 etc... see what's going on.
Not sure if it's been mentioned but have you tried a 0.1uf or so across the secondaries too.
Good luck... I hope the amp survives
To help protect the amplifier while testing have you tried using a 100 watt bulb in series with the mains
Certainly try the test with the transistor and modulation... maybe feed the base from your signal generator at 1 to 10 khz for example. See if anything unexpected shows.
Then I think you have to try again... this time have as much test gear wired up ready. Monitor the rails with a DVM, have the scope on the rails too, then slowly increase the drive to the amp.
Does the amp have to be supplying a low load impedance for the troubles to start ?
and how near to clipping is it. Maybe try 100 ohm load, then 47 etc... see what's going on.
Not sure if it's been mentioned but have you tried a 0.1uf or so across the secondaries too.
Good luck... I hope the amp survives
To help protect the amplifier while testing have you tried using a 100 watt bulb in series with the mains
I will try some.... i do not know when...but i will do it, for sure
I have no 100 watts lamps anymore...all them electronic bulbs now a days..... i have a single one, but 25 watts only.
Will try some resistances in series too..... these 100N will be used..... in the rectifiers.
This will modulate..for sure it will.... well..we gonna see that soon.
The hell thing is over my bench..waiting for me to find courage to do that.
regards,
Carlos
I have no 100 watts lamps anymore...all them electronic bulbs now a days..... i have a single one, but 25 watts only.
Will try some resistances in series too..... these 100N will be used..... in the rectifiers.
This will modulate..for sure it will.... well..we gonna see that soon.
The hell thing is over my bench..waiting for me to find courage to do that.
regards,
Carlos
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Mooly..... the amplifier burned immediatelly.... was the very stable,
highly tested, super reliable Dx amplifier...this one was working with 55V...then i wire the transformer secondary for 48 plus 48 volts....one volt square wave entering, frequency of 20 kilohertz and them burned, almost instantaneouly...the series resistances installed burned..the ones from the secondary to the bridge rectifier.
I have fixed the amplifier.... burned power transistors and one driver.
Wired the transformer once again, to 39 volts... other resistances inserted in series, from the secondary to the rectifier.
Watch what happened...amplifier that was fine..shorted once again...was checked with other supply.
No!.... the mains AC has not connections to the secondary...no high voltage there...output is around 28 volts AC... rectifier not burned...no short at the rectifier output..no short into the output cables, no short into the filter condensers.
Amplifier was receiving 1 volts of audio, 20 kilohertz, square wave.
Other videos, showing the tests you have asked will be uploaded soon.
I would like you to explain me if something is wrong....i do not know what is wrong.
No more tests.... finished:
YouTube - Aaaagh, that transformer again!
regards,
Carlos
highly tested, super reliable Dx amplifier...this one was working with 55V...then i wire the transformer secondary for 48 plus 48 volts....one volt square wave entering, frequency of 20 kilohertz and them burned, almost instantaneouly...the series resistances installed burned..the ones from the secondary to the bridge rectifier.
I have fixed the amplifier.... burned power transistors and one driver.
Wired the transformer once again, to 39 volts... other resistances inserted in series, from the secondary to the rectifier.
Watch what happened...amplifier that was fine..shorted once again...was checked with other supply.
No!.... the mains AC has not connections to the secondary...no high voltage there...output is around 28 volts AC... rectifier not burned...no short at the rectifier output..no short into the output cables, no short into the filter condensers.
Amplifier was receiving 1 volts of audio, 20 kilohertz, square wave.
Other videos, showing the tests you have asked will be uploaded soon.
I would like you to explain me if something is wrong....i do not know what is wrong.
No more tests.... finished:
YouTube - Aaaagh, that transformer again!
regards,
Carlos
Hi Carlos,
I have just watched your video... it's bizarre... how can a transformer do that ?
I have no real answers for you 🙁
All your amps work fine on other transformers... I can't begin to guess what's happening after watching that.
Just a mad thought... what would happen if you reduced the bias on the amplifier to zero (short out vbe multipier), wonder if it would still burn up then.
It's very very interesting, but not for you if it keeps destroying parts.
You haven't access to any other toroids to try have you ?
I have just watched your video... it's bizarre... how can a transformer do that ?
I have no real answers for you 🙁
All your amps work fine on other transformers... I can't begin to guess what's happening after watching that.
Just a mad thought... what would happen if you reduced the bias on the amplifier to zero (short out vbe multipier), wonder if it would still burn up then.
It's very very interesting, but not for you if it keeps destroying parts.
You haven't access to any other toroids to try have you ?
The amplifier is not stable at all if the resistors burned. This is strong cross-conduction (a bad "switching speedup capacitor" setup, a problem with Vbe multiplier, or plain instability). Accept the evidence. Find out why both banks of output transistors start to pass current simultaneously. Don't be a chicken.
Edit: I think with other transformers the cross-conduction causes the rails to drop just below the point where it's triggered, so the fault is masked. EI transformers produce
much weaker output. The toroid has much lower output impedance, so the output devices lose this time.
Or just send me a prototype and I will fix it to demonstrate that the fault is in your design 😀
Edit: I think with other transformers the cross-conduction causes the rails to drop just below the point where it's triggered, so the fault is masked. EI transformers produce
much weaker output. The toroid has much lower output impedance, so the output devices lose this time.
Or just send me a prototype and I will fix it to demonstrate that the fault is in your design 😀
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I am not reading you dear Eva...i just see your name there
From time to time, some friends, playing with me, use to inform me criticisms from you..the last one you said (Dx is not science).
I see this as something not friendly, as i use to help forum folks when you do not do that.... you do not offer amplifiers, do not show pictures..all imaginary, all virtual things....no cooperation...just criticisms to everybody... thinking you are a consultant...but no one have asked your help....well.... at least, i am not interested anymore.
You can say whatever you want..will not read..you're not friendly...was proved several times.
My posts are for other guys that wants to help..i am interested in Mooly thougths for instance.... he wants to help.
Carlos
From time to time, some friends, playing with me, use to inform me criticisms from you..the last one you said (Dx is not science).
I see this as something not friendly, as i use to help forum folks when you do not do that.... you do not offer amplifiers, do not show pictures..all imaginary, all virtual things....no cooperation...just criticisms to everybody... thinking you are a consultant...but no one have asked your help....well.... at least, i am not interested anymore.
You can say whatever you want..will not read..you're not friendly...was proved several times.
My posts are for other guys that wants to help..i am interested in Mooly thougths for instance.... he wants to help.
Carlos
No dear Mooly... i have not acess to other toroidal transformer, at least for a while
This one was a gift.
I have no troubles with other supplies...i have three more...all standard transformers.... no one is toroidal core.
Will not try more tests... already have lost 14 pairs of transistors..it is much more than enougth, as i am not rich and these transistors where gifts i received from forum friends..i cannot be destroying anymore..they are almost finishing.
So..no more test, will not do them anymore...the stuff is going to have an end my dear..did it because of you..... just because of you.
I am uploading the AC test made...it is a big file, around 300 Megabytes... will be waiting it upload and them you show you..the ghost have appeared....
I have not knowledge to conclude what is going on.... amplifier are my targed, i can live, for a while, without big know how about toroidal transformers...if you perceive something..please, let me know...but not more aditional tests.
Picture shows another amplifier..i have four units operating..one stereo and two mono units...two units made with the standard board Taj made and two units made my style...all them stable, not burning, accepting high frequencies without too much strange things happening in the threshold of clipping with 20 kilohertz and low impedance output loads...also reasonable with 2.2uf in parallel with the load.... waveform goes a little bit worse..but not a terrible result..and i do that using 20 kilohertz and full power..people do these tests with 10 watts and 10 kilohertz (this way is easier)
regards,
Carlos
This one was a gift.
I have no troubles with other supplies...i have three more...all standard transformers.... no one is toroidal core.
Will not try more tests... already have lost 14 pairs of transistors..it is much more than enougth, as i am not rich and these transistors where gifts i received from forum friends..i cannot be destroying anymore..they are almost finishing.
So..no more test, will not do them anymore...the stuff is going to have an end my dear..did it because of you..... just because of you.
I am uploading the AC test made...it is a big file, around 300 Megabytes... will be waiting it upload and them you show you..the ghost have appeared....
I have not knowledge to conclude what is going on.... amplifier are my targed, i can live, for a while, without big know how about toroidal transformers...if you perceive something..please, let me know...but not more aditional tests.
Picture shows another amplifier..i have four units operating..one stereo and two mono units...two units made with the standard board Taj made and two units made my style...all them stable, not burning, accepting high frequencies without too much strange things happening in the threshold of clipping with 20 kilohertz and low impedance output loads...also reasonable with 2.2uf in parallel with the load.... waveform goes a little bit worse..but not a terrible result..and i do that using 20 kilohertz and full power..people do these tests with 10 watts and 10 kilohertz (this way is easier)
regards,
Carlos
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Here you have the video dear Mooly and other friends that have asked
I am not sure if this is what you wanted me to do....well.... i have not knowledge to understand what i was doing....in my mind i was searching for modulation and also searching to reflections of these modulations in the secondary free wire.
I am sorry if this is not what you want..... sorry because will not repeat tests with this transformer anymore.
The waveform seems very ugly to me.... I also do not want to believe transformer can do this..but i am FORCED to believe...it is happening..and if i decide to try to do that once again, then will burn once again..and several other amplifiers was burned...Aksa, DHR turbo, Dx Amplifier...all them was burned by this one.... i have not realised was this transformer..i also have troubles to understand this...only coils and a core.... strange things!
And the Aksa was my prefered one..the lovely 55... special sound stage...lovely voices.
YouTube - Setup to AC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GjQnhBpWJs
regards,
Carlos
I am not sure if this is what you wanted me to do....well.... i have not knowledge to understand what i was doing....in my mind i was searching for modulation and also searching to reflections of these modulations in the secondary free wire.
I am sorry if this is not what you want..... sorry because will not repeat tests with this transformer anymore.
The waveform seems very ugly to me.... I also do not want to believe transformer can do this..but i am FORCED to believe...it is happening..and if i decide to try to do that once again, then will burn once again..and several other amplifiers was burned...Aksa, DHR turbo, Dx Amplifier...all them was burned by this one.... i have not realised was this transformer..i also have troubles to understand this...only coils and a core.... strange things!
And the Aksa was my prefered one..the lovely 55... special sound stage...lovely voices.
YouTube - Setup to AC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GjQnhBpWJs
regards,
Carlos
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Then I may find some time to build the amplifier and publish a detailed report on your design faults and the fixes 😉
The problem is that you may be making some mistake with wiring/ground loops that I won't be able to replicate because I would do these things right by default.
Sometimes receiving criticism is very healty, useful to get your feet back on the ground. I think many people will agree that blaming a transformer for an amplifier design mistake and thinking that there is nothing wrong with the amplifier is something that deserves plenty of criticism.
I'm glad that you are now publishing waveforms and caring about them. This makes your methods more scientific and I like it a lot. Would you be doing that if I hadn't insisted soo much telling that the lack of scientific methods results in a lack of reliability on amplifiers? Probably you wouldn't.
The problem is that you may be making some mistake with wiring/ground loops that I won't be able to replicate because I would do these things right by default.
Sometimes receiving criticism is very healty, useful to get your feet back on the ground. I think many people will agree that blaming a transformer for an amplifier design mistake and thinking that there is nothing wrong with the amplifier is something that deserves plenty of criticism.
I'm glad that you are now publishing waveforms and caring about them. This makes your methods more scientific and I like it a lot. Would you be doing that if I hadn't insisted soo much telling that the lack of scientific methods results in a lack of reliability on amplifiers? Probably you wouldn't.
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