Hi Chris,
Sorry for the noob question. Why would the rear mouth designs in our room situation make them impractical?
The design of those horn, first with the bigger footprint, and the mouth exiting at the back.
Because of those, you need to place them far away from the wall behind the speakers, otherwise, you might get booming bass.
With the TABAQ, one can actually use the bass boost from placement on a wall to forego the use of a baffle step compensation filter, depending on the driver used... at the expense of some imaging.
The FH look great, if one likes the design, and perform best when they are free to breathe, with not much obstruction around them. So, for a sizeable and clutter free listening room, they stand out.
It that sense, the TABAQs are a little easier to place in a room. And the building a little easier, with no swooping cuts needed. Just straight planks.
Because of those, you need to place them far away from the wall behind the speakers, otherwise, you might get booming bass.
With the TABAQ, one can actually use the bass boost from placement on a wall to forego the use of a baffle step compensation filter, depending on the driver used... at the expense of some imaging.
The FH look great, if one likes the design, and perform best when they are free to breathe, with not much obstruction around them. So, for a sizeable and clutter free listening room, they stand out.
It that sense, the TABAQs are a little easier to place in a room. And the building a little easier, with no swooping cuts needed. Just straight planks.
Brian, Perceval pretty much beat me to the answer - in short room aesthetics/WAF. I have two separate systems, but the floor plans are almost identical with the main speakers flanking a large picture window and either couch in the upstairs open plan living room, or lowboy style equipment rack and 65” flat screen in the downstairs den. Both rooms have a gas fireplace smack in the middle of the longer left side wall. We’ve been in this place for over 30yrs, over which time I’ve tried numerous configurations - these are the best compromises between sound quality at “sweet spot”, furnishings and traffic patterns. The real world has an interesting way of interfering with one’s plans for perfection.
All of the current speakers are ported, but those are either located on the fronts or sides. I have “tested” all 3 sizes of FH, and even the Woden Maeshowe in both of these rooms, and they sounded great, but that entailed moving several pieces of furniture into a very inefficient pattern and was only temporary. Now, before anyone advises to toss out that last piece of furniture that gets in the way, you’ve not met my wife of 47yrs, and not all battles are worth the cost of “victory”
All of the current speakers are ported, but those are either located on the fronts or sides. I have “tested” all 3 sizes of FH, and even the Woden Maeshowe in both of these rooms, and they sounded great, but that entailed moving several pieces of furniture into a very inefficient pattern and was only temporary. Now, before anyone advises to toss out that last piece of furniture that gets in the way, you’ve not met my wife of 47yrs, and not all battles are worth the cost of “victory”
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A rearward facing BR port is not the same as a rear facing horn on the FH - which likes to have about 3 or more ft. The rear facing BR will enhance the bass by maybe 2dB more than front facing as that moves the port back by about 6in assuming a typical Tabaq cabinet depth. And this is only if it is right against the wall (1 or 2 in). Many speakers have rear facing ports, including the LS50, the LSR305, and a bunch of other "desktop" or "bookshelf" studio monitors. It's not a big deal. If the speaker is a 12 in or so from back wall, I don't think the rear vs front facing port is all that different.
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All the Frugel-Horns (& the curved rear mouth Woden Horns) all use the proximilty of at least a wall behind to expand the effective mouth size. They can be placed fairly close to the wall — but are fairly deep all by themselves — I regularily run them just in front of my FH deflector, about 8”. If there is too much bass, add more damping below the driver. If not enuff remove some.
All speakers prefer not to have “junk” around them but that is often a fact of domestic life.
dave
How far do I have to place the desktop spkrs with rear BR port to experience the 2db lift? does it mean also with this rear port placement I can get lower freq. response, if how more extension(Hz) can I get? Thanks.
OP may also look into this concept
MTM with TC9fd
i had the exact same idea, for my next project, make a simple 1rst order dual tc9fd+tweeter bedroom speaker when i found it!
if you don't listen too loud, they should do bass OK but non on par with ls50 (i would think) depending on box type, loudness, if you high pass the woofer
MTM with TC9fd
i had the exact same idea, for my next project, make a simple 1rst order dual tc9fd+tweeter bedroom speaker when i found it!
if you don't listen too loud, they should do bass OK but non on par with ls50 (i would think) depending on box type, loudness, if you high pass the woofer
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Thanks for the suggestion. I guess I will stick with just a FR driver for now as I am still learning to building a speaker for the first time and probably try to avoid crossover for my first build. But will keep this in mind for my second project.
Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. I agree with the comments. LS50 has great sound imaging in width and depth but not height. I am glad that hear that the MA drivers are not too far behind the kef. For budget reasons, I think I will go with TB or the Dayton audio RS-100-8. It's seems the Dayton is the best bang for the buck. But not sure how it measures up to the others like the Alpair10 , and the TB w4s. For half of the price I just can't ignore them.
keep in mind that bass/low midrange on rs100 is probably far superior quality, realtive to tc9f10, due to metal cone, at medium-high levels, if ever you want to recycle them eventually
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Unfortunately, the RS100 is not a great match for the TABAQs.
As Bjorn posted:
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
As Bjorn posted:
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
I almost forgot...
there's another speaker that impressed me, the Nola Brio clone.
They are built with the TC9FD-8 but you can swap for your favorite FR driver... mine were the TC9s initially, but I upgraded to the Visaton B80. Very nice. You could also use the SS 10F/8424 for another upgrade option.
You would absolutely need to use your subwoofer with them, or even better, a pair of subs.
Subs are easy to hide.
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
there's another speaker that impressed me, the Nola Brio clone.
They are built with the TC9FD-8 but you can swap for your favorite FR driver... mine were the TC9s initially, but I upgraded to the Visaton B80. Very nice. You could also use the SS 10F/8424 for another upgrade option.
You would absolutely need to use your subwoofer with them, or even better, a pair of subs.
Subs are easy to hide.
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
Bummer. I tried looking for cabinet designs for RS100 but couldn’t find many.
Might work with the one I mentioned later, the Nola Brio clones.
But these RS100 do seem to fall off rather fast in the high end.
The PS95 seems to hold a bit better.
I've been meaning to try the new SBA driver, but my distributor is very slow getting some in stock.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/3in-sb10pgc21-4/
But these RS100 do seem to fall off rather fast in the high end.
The PS95 seems to hold a bit better.
I've been meaning to try the new SBA driver, but my distributor is very slow getting some in stock.
https://sbacoustics.com/product/3in-sb10pgc21-4/
If you are curious how many of these drivers sound compared to each other there were a series of virtual audition blind listening threads I did a while back. RS100, TC9, B80, Alpair 7, 3FE22, FR58EX, TG9, SS 10F, they are all there.
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in Full Range Drivers
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in drivers - Round 2
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 3
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 4
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 3.5in drivers - Round 5
Btw, from what I recall, the RS100 is a fine driver that reaches just as high as the TC9 but being aluminum has a bit of tizz sound - some people may like it as more “airy” sounding. It was the RS100 P (paper cone) that did not go as high as the TC9 I think. RS100 works well in a 0.4x Karlsonator or an XKi.
RS100-8 FR curves:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in Full Range Drivers
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in drivers - Round 2
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 3
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 4
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 3.5in drivers - Round 5
Btw, from what I recall, the RS100 is a fine driver that reaches just as high as the TC9 but being aluminum has a bit of tizz sound - some people may like it as more “airy” sounding. It was the RS100 P (paper cone) that did not go as high as the TC9 I think. RS100 works well in a 0.4x Karlsonator or an XKi.
RS100-8 FR curves:
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