Cambridge s700 vs NOS or other DIY DAC

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SimonInd

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Joined 2005
#1
Hi,
Having dragged my s700 out of storage to compare it to the DAC in my TAG AV32R processor I find myself preferring it's sound for most music I listen to. So this has got me thinking, if a £100 DAC can challenge the TAG, should I be looking at one of the more recent DIY designs out there?

My system consists of a PC (outside the listening room) with a RME HDSP9632 sound card feeding S/PDIF to the s700. This uses the 5 channel bypass input of my TAG AV32R which in turn feeds a 2 channel ColdAmp based class-D power amp driving over-specified KLS9 speakers.

The question I have is, how do the NOS DACs (e.g. Monica) compare with both the likes of the s700 and other oversampling DIY designs (e.g Opus)?

I listen almost exclusively to rock/pop/folk so PRaT is as important to me as midrange clarity etc.

Any advice appreciated
Simon
 
#2
s700

Apples and pears Simon. The nos dac have strengths BUT they have problems also. Both dacs you mention are highly regarded but how can you really know unless you're prepared to dive in???

Spdif is a transmission modality thats had it's day. Recent experiments with USB-I2S that I have been experimenting with this last year show conclusively, our future audio happiness lies here.....

There is a lot happening now in this direction and I would advise you explore these avenues avoiding as always the lunatic pricing of some vendors. Explore the technical possibilities of installing a USB input in your S700. The sound card in your pc for me is irrelevant in the near future and if make the junp to USB with something like the 700 you don't need it.

And, if your wondering if I was prepared to dive in as it were.
I myself over the last 7 years have been searching and struggling with concepts and idea's both old and new, looking both backwards to past equipment and taking an even harder look forward at the trash many (not all I hasten to add) are making now.
It's cost thousands Simon, tens of thousands. Perhaps you could dip your toe in and buy a monica to build. If it cost a £100 to build and enjoy and you subsequently don't like it, put it on e-bay for £50 and its been a modest investment/experiment.

And no I'm not suggesting anyone should spend bundles of cash figuring out what they want. I'm single and semi-retired, have no kids to feed or wife to placate so I can do what I want.
And I do.
 
#7
Thanks for the link to your article Puffin, have you had a chance to try the IsoMagic against the Lite Ah yet?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that the world is polarised between those that love the sound of NOS DACs and those that think they sound unrefined and innacurate.

I'm now torn between the Opus USB kit and a NOS DAC and I guess NOS might be the more interesting, if riskier option?
 
#8
I wouldn't say that the NOS dac was a "riskier" option. I found the LiTe Dac AH a breath of fresh air. It seemed so much less "hifi" than other dac's I had tried. If you do get one, then you must correct the resistor error (if the one's they are selling now are still affected) and then perform the passive mod. For the money I think it's a no-brainer.
 
#12
Simon, you haven't heard what the IsoMagic is capable of until you hear it clock-locked to a transport. Without the clock link, the IsoMagic is good but unexceptional.

I compared my DiscMagic/IsoMagic to a Classe CDP-10 and a Musical Fidelity A5 on home demos. I had a slight preference for the Cambridge over the Classe, and a slight preference for the MF over the Cambridge gear.

But that was before I upgraded the power supply on the Iso. I'm confident that the Cambridge pair, using glass Toslink connectors for data and clock, with a beefed up and rectified power supply on the IsoMagic, is comparable to any current CDP up to $4000.
 
#13
I didn't think the clock lock would make that much difference as my soundcard already has a low-jitter S/PDIF out (<1ns): http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_9632.php

Does the link do more than reduce jitter? Should I try and modify the signal so that the RME can sync. to it using it's S/PDIF in? Or would dividing down to 44.1kHz negate the benefit of having it in the first place?

I'm not prepared to move back to a transport as the quality and convenience of having bit perfect rips on a HDD is too much to give up. Given this, might it make sense to get a USB-I2S solution, either attached to the s700 or an alternative DAC?

Thanks
Simon
 
#14
SimonInd said:
I didn't think the clock lock would make that much difference as my soundcard already has a low-jitter S/PDIF out (<1ns): http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_9632.php

Does the link do more than reduce jitter? Should I try and modify the signal so that the RME can sync. to it using it's S/PDIF in? Or would dividing down to 44.1kHz negate the benefit of having it in the first place?
Click to expand...

The DiscMagic transport also has a pretty good clock, but there's a big difference between running with two good clocks and running from a master clock. It's not just a difference in some spec, it's a difference in how it plays music. If you want to hear the importance of rhythm and timing in music, running locked and unlocked lays it out in spades. It also tightens up the bass and cleans up the treble.


SimonInd said:
I'm not prepared to move back to a transport as the quality and convenience of having bit perfect rips on a HDD is too much to give up. Given this, might it make sense to get a USB-I2S solution, either attached to the s700 or an alternative DAC?

Thanks
Simon
Click to expand...

According to John Westlake, who designed the IsoMagic, I2S is not as good as a clock lock circuit. Note that he mentions the difference in RFI, which seems to make a big difference in the performance of the IsoMagic. That's why John recommends glass toslink cables for the clock and the data links.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1302753&highlight=#post1302753

There are a few threads on this forum with IsoMagic in the title. Somewhere in there are posts that describe how to generate a clock lock cct from another make of transport. I'm not sure whether this could work with a HDD.
 
#15
My RME soundcard will sync to a master clock - I tried it last night and it syncronised to a 32kHz signal that was coming out of mt TAG AV23R (for whatever reason) giving the digital equivelent of playing a (45rpm) single at 33rpm.

So I guess what I need is to generate a 44.1khz S/PDIF signal from the Clock Lock circuit in the s700?

Any ideas on how I should do this? Is it just a square wave signal or do I need to follow some sort of protocol?

Ideally I would squirrel away any modification inside the s700.

Thanks again for your help
Simon
 
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