Calling all clever people :) What do you make of this?

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#303
Cal Weldon said:


I can't see them ever going faster than 2X the speed of the plane through the air. At that point the plane has reached it's takeoff speed and the wheels lift off the belt.
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I totally agree 🙂

Here is a video of an experiment based on the question.

http://videos.streetfire.net/player.aspx?fileid=35E964D9-38DB-4EFD-BE8D-D6BA1A43A06B

I was going to make one for the other forum but it would have been using a running machine treadmill powered by a 100 BHP motorcycle and used a toy car powered by firework rockets. 😀 If nothing it would have been spectacular - I don't think it would have been in any way conclusive though... 😀 Just dangerous...
 
#304
pinkmouse said:


I'd never do that, I'm having too much fun! It's ages since I carried out cutting edge physics experiments on my kitchen table.

Well, mechanics anyway. I blow things up with monotonous regularity, so my hot fusion research is coming on a treat 😉
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Good, glad to hear it 😀

AFAIK, there is still a small crater in the garden of the house I used to live in from shortly after I discovered how to make radio detonators which allowed me to play with more explosives than it was safe (?) to run away from after lighting a fuse... 😀

Good luck with the hot fusion - I think you are far enough away for me to be able to say that and mean it 😀
 
#306
Hmm

If you let them alone, they go backwards at 3mph. If you fix them, (nail their hands to the wall or something 😉 ), then they stay stationary. If you tie them to a motorbike moving at 3mph next to the travellator with a bit of rope then they travel at 3mph forward. However, the wheels on their skates are traveling at 6mph...
 
#309
UPDATE!!!!!!
please read my answer ,very important 🙂

I GOT THE ANSWER NOW !!!!

first of all , the original idea of "matching the wheel speed" is confusing more then i thought .
now here's the explanation

the ideah of matching speed:
if u got a car going 30mph forward , the conveyor moves 30pmh backwards . go 40mph and the conveyor will go 40mph backwards ...
so , its like the conveyor reads your speed by gps/speedometer and matches the same speed going backwards ,trying to keep u on the same place .
i think ya'll agree with me till that point ...

now the plane is not a car its not moving by the wheels , but ...the plane needs to move forward in order to gain speed and take off .
now what will happend when u turn on the engine ...
wery weird thing!!! the plane will move forward but the fact tha its moving forward means that the conveyor is not matching wheel speed and its turning too slow
for example if the plane going 10mph the conveyor moves back 10mph
plane goin 100mph , conveyor 100 mph
but , the plane is not driven by the wheels , so what will happen is this :
IN REALITY :
when u turn on the engine , the conveyor will try to match the speed of the wheels so it will turn backwards very fast , till it will reach speed when the friction between the wheels / bearings will be that high that the plane will remain in place , this will happen probably at about 30000mph or so , but off course , everything will blow before that , so , the plane WILL NOT TAKE OFF IN REALITY!!!


IN THERY:
in theory there is no friction between the wheels and the bearings , so what will happen is the conveyor will reach infinate speed , so do the wheels , but the plane will still move forward and WILL TAKE OFF!!



conclusions :
first off all , i think it was a theoretical question , in that case - the plane will take off . but anyways , i think more important thing is
that ALL OF US WERE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THOSE THAT SAID IT WONT FLY AND THOSE THAT SAID IT WILL!!!



:smash: :smash: :smash:
 
#310
quickshift said:
If the plane was kept on the ground by the conveyor I.E. it remained stationary relative to a fixed point on the ground, it would be impossible to pull someone on rollerskates at 3 mph along a travellator doing 3 MPH in the opposite direction.
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Meh.

You do know that the only thing the person pulling on the string would have to do to create an acceleration on the skater is stand still right? By standing still he would be creating a force (and therefore acceleration) on the roller skater, simply because the conveyer is moving. Imagine what would happen if he let go of the rope 🙂

If the person walks forward, than the original postulation is violated. The wheel would not have the same surface speed as the conveyer. The wheel would have a faster surface speed. Like Maxro stated, that is the only way the skater can move forward.


And via your video, and pinkmouse's experiment:
Perhaps they are not pulling the paper fast enough? In both cases a constant force is applied on the object, so the bearing's forward velocity will increase over time. This means that the paper must be pull out from underneath it faster and faster. It's actually fairly surprising how fast the paper must be pulled out given even just one second of acceleration.
 
#311
sss said:
UPDATE!!!!!!
please read my answer ,very important 🙂

I GOT THE ANSWER NOW !!!!
Click to expand...

No you don't. What you did is just repeat other people's arguments without strenghening them or debunking them through further insight. Screaming in caps would not give you the right answer.

My argument has always been that even given completely ideal situations where the wheel bearing is completely frictionless, and can turn as fast as it likes without hitting special relativity, that the plane still won't take off.

Read the thread?
😎
 
#312
Top banana! I've been away for a couple of hours and its all turning nasty again!
This things like groundhog day...its a never ending cycle of the same ideas that change ever so slightly each cycle.
Fantastic!

I wish we could do a poll on 'does it or doesn't it!'

I realised some time ago that there is no answer to a seriously flawed question.

1. It takes off

2. The wheels explode and it crashes

These are the only two variants but with interesting scenarios within them i.e. what is speed? surface speed, rotational speed, linear speed!
.....and what does matched mean, to match the speed of the wheels the conveyor must act upon the wheels, this increases the wheel speed and therefore the cycle continues into infinity at a rate far quicker than take off. Can it match the speed without acting upon the speed?...No

I haven't had this much fun for a while, marriage does that to you!
 
#313
I can see that some human minds are still infected. They need to be scanned and cleaned. :magnify:

If it's too bad, a wipe and reload will be needed. :Ohno:

My wife left in a plane today, that confirms that airplane wheels are able to turn.

-Chris
 
#314
eVITAERC said:


Meh.

You do know that the only thing the person pulling on the string would have to do to create an acceleration on the skater is stand still right? By standing still he would be creating a force (and therefore acceleration) on the roller skater, simply because the conveyer is moving. Imagine what would happen if he let go of the rope 🙂

If the person walks forward, than the original postulation is violated. The wheel would not have the same surface speed as the conveyer. The wheel would have a faster surface speed. Like Maxro stated, that is the only way the skater can move forward.


And via your video, and pinkmouse's experiment:
Perhaps they are not pulling the paper fast enough? In both cases a constant force is applied on the object, so the bearing's forward velocity will increase over time. This means that the paper must be pull out from underneath it faster and faster. It's actually fairly surprising how fast the paper must be pulled out given even just one second of acceleration.
Click to expand...


Yup, by standing still they are applying an exactly equal force to the skater as the one supplied by the travellator. They aren't supplying an acceleration force because the velocity doesn't change.

OK, so when the person moves forwards, the travellator also speeds up so when the person is pulling the skater is doing 8 MPH, the travellator is doing 8 MPH the other way and the wheels are doing 16 MPH - but the skater is still being pulled forwards.

If the person pullign ran at 20 MPH, the travellator would be doing 20 MPH and the wheels would be doing 40 MPH - but the skater would still be pulled forwards.

I reckon I should try the experiment with the running machine 😀
 
#316
Lostcause said:
Top banana! I've been away for a couple of hours and its all turning nasty again!
This things like groundhog day...its a never ending cycle of the same ideas that change ever so slightly each cycle.
Fantastic!
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Can you at least acknowledge the fact that some people here are proponents of the "3. We don't care if the wheel is frictionless or whatever, it can be as slick as James Dean's hair and it still wont take off" camp? And we have been sticking to this for the past 200+ posts already.


anatech said:
I can see that some human minds are still infected. They need to be scanned and cleaned. :magnify:

If it's too bad, a wipe and reload will be needed. :Ohno:

My wife left in a plane today, that confirms that airplane wheels are able to turn.

-Chris
Click to expand...

Nobody is trying to lock the wheel up. Stop imagining things.
 
#317
eVITAERC said:


No you don't. What you did is just repeat other people's arguments without strenghening them or debunking them through further insight. Screaming in caps would not give you the right answer.

My argument has always been that even given completely ideal situations where the wheel bearing is completely frictionless, and can turn as fast as it likes without hitting special relativity, that the plane still won't take off.

Read the thread?
😎
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sorry mate , i stopped after 4 pages or so 🙂
i just copied my post from another forum 😀
anyway
if u think that if the conveyor moving backwards at infinite speed + the wheels got no friction what so ever will still stop the plane from moving forward in theory then your thinkng is wrong 🙄
imagine plane with no wheels and no friction between the plane/conveyor trying to take of from a conveyor moving backwards at infinate speed ....
if the engine is of and the conveyor still moves backwards at infinate speed , but, there is no friction between the plane and the conveyor - the plane will remain in place!!
turn on the engine - the plane will move forward
no friction = nothing stops it from moving forward
if u argue this , then u dont know the basic laws of phisics 🙄
waiting for your answers 😉
 
#318
"Do not try and move the plane. That's impossible. Instead ... only try to realize the truth."
"What truth?"
"There is no plane or conveyor."
"There is no plane or conveyor?"
"Then you'll see that it is not the plane or conveyor that moves, it is only yourself."

And thus you will all reach enlightenment. 😀




I ain't gettin on no plane...crazy fool.
 
#319
quickshift said:



Yup, by standing still they are applying an exactly equal force to the skater as the one supplied by the travellator. They aren't supplying an acceleration force because the velocity doesn't change.

OK, so when the person moves forwards, the travellator also speeds up so when the person is pulling the skater is doing 8 MPH, the travellator is doing 8 MPH the other way and the wheels are doing 16 MPH - but the skater is still being pulled forwards.

If the person pullign ran at 20 MPH, the travellator would be doing 20 MPH and the wheels would be doing 40 MPH - but the skater would still be pulled forwards.

I reckon I should try the experiment with the running machine 😀
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No, what would happen is that the person pulling on the roller skate would fin it impossible to move forward cuase as soon as he steps forward the conveyer + skater would effectively be pulling him back with equal force. It'll be like pulling against a tug of war with an opponent exactly as strong as you.
 
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