A lot of info, but there is a question at the bottom.
I have an old CAL CL-25 DVD/CD player from the late 90's. I got it for next to nothing off of fleabay about 4 years ago. The audio quality from this old CAL player is fantastic, it has the PMD-100/BB 1702 combo, and I plan to keep it going for as long as possible. When I first bought it about approx. 25% of the time when I first turned it on I would get no CD audio (CD audio only, DVD audio is unaffected) for the first couple of minutes. Then the audio would be sporadic for about 30 secs and then it would work fine for the rest of the listening session.
Over the past 4 years this has gotten progressively worse and it now does it every time I turn it on. Basically I have to wait for 3 - 4 minutes and then it works fine. Weird thing is that DVD's work fine. I don't watch DVD's on this player, but I tested it quite a bit with a couple of DVD's and it loads up and the audio/video works great every time. My assumption is that it is likely the laser pickup that is slowly dying and even if it is not, then I probably need to have a spare to keep this thing going. I have seen some reports of bad electrolytic caps in the old Panasonic players, but I have inspected mine and none of them show the telltale signs of being swollen and/or leaking. I may ultimately replace several of them in the transport/servo PS anyway just to be safe.
There is precious little info out there about the transport mechanism in this old CAL player, but I managed to track it down. It just so happens back in 1998 that I owned a Panasonic DVD-A300 dyd player as my entry into that format. When I unpacked the CAL CL-25 I immediately recognized the remote as the same one that my old Panasonic DVD-A300 player came with. So in doing some searching I found out that generation of Panasonic DVD player (Matsushita transport) came with the VED0378 laser assy. I opened up the CL-25 transport and inspected the laser mechanism and it appears to match those that I have seen on the web for sale. I can find new replacements for the VED-0378 for $40 - $50 off of Fleabay.
The VED0378 is the laser pickup that has a single laser for both CD and DVD. Which confounds me because my problem is with CD only and from what I've seen DVD play back is typically the first thing affected when the laser starts to die. I did some searching here and it looks like this first gen Panasonic laser pickup has a very poor track record. There is no service manual available for this unit, well there is at approved audio service but they will not sell it.
So my question is for anybody out there that has changed out this VED0378 laser in this or another player. Is the VED0378 laser a drop-in and go procedure or are there adjustments that have to be made to optimize it?
I have an old CAL CL-25 DVD/CD player from the late 90's. I got it for next to nothing off of fleabay about 4 years ago. The audio quality from this old CAL player is fantastic, it has the PMD-100/BB 1702 combo, and I plan to keep it going for as long as possible. When I first bought it about approx. 25% of the time when I first turned it on I would get no CD audio (CD audio only, DVD audio is unaffected) for the first couple of minutes. Then the audio would be sporadic for about 30 secs and then it would work fine for the rest of the listening session.
Over the past 4 years this has gotten progressively worse and it now does it every time I turn it on. Basically I have to wait for 3 - 4 minutes and then it works fine. Weird thing is that DVD's work fine. I don't watch DVD's on this player, but I tested it quite a bit with a couple of DVD's and it loads up and the audio/video works great every time. My assumption is that it is likely the laser pickup that is slowly dying and even if it is not, then I probably need to have a spare to keep this thing going. I have seen some reports of bad electrolytic caps in the old Panasonic players, but I have inspected mine and none of them show the telltale signs of being swollen and/or leaking. I may ultimately replace several of them in the transport/servo PS anyway just to be safe.
There is precious little info out there about the transport mechanism in this old CAL player, but I managed to track it down. It just so happens back in 1998 that I owned a Panasonic DVD-A300 dyd player as my entry into that format. When I unpacked the CAL CL-25 I immediately recognized the remote as the same one that my old Panasonic DVD-A300 player came with. So in doing some searching I found out that generation of Panasonic DVD player (Matsushita transport) came with the VED0378 laser assy. I opened up the CL-25 transport and inspected the laser mechanism and it appears to match those that I have seen on the web for sale. I can find new replacements for the VED-0378 for $40 - $50 off of Fleabay.
The VED0378 is the laser pickup that has a single laser for both CD and DVD. Which confounds me because my problem is with CD only and from what I've seen DVD play back is typically the first thing affected when the laser starts to die. I did some searching here and it looks like this first gen Panasonic laser pickup has a very poor track record. There is no service manual available for this unit, well there is at approved audio service but they will not sell it.
So my question is for anybody out there that has changed out this VED0378 laser in this or another player. Is the VED0378 laser a drop-in and go procedure or are there adjustments that have to be made to optimize it?
The VED0378, the most disastrously unreliable laser in dvd history(with the Hitachi HOP1200 used in a lot of Denons being a close second), should definitely be a "drop-in" replacement. Just don't forget to remove the solder blob static protection shorting "jumpers" on the new laser once it is installed. And it is not unusual for cd to go first on these.
That is good, so it should be a straight laser swap with the VED0378. I'm glad to hear that its not uncommon for the CD playback to go first. I was worried I may be barking up the wrong tree. All of the info I found about bad laser pickups referred to a loss of DVD playback with CD's still working. Maybe that info was based on a two laser system.
I'm hopeful that maybe the later production VED0378's might be a bit more reliable. Anything I buy now I would think should be from a late production run.
I'm hopeful that maybe the later production VED0378's might be a bit more reliable. Anything I buy now I would think should be from a late production run.
I don't want to thread jack but...
I have a Denon 3930ci that is acting up and not reading disks. I bought a replacement laser on ebay from a guy in the UK and can do the install. A question i do have if anyone knows is if there some kind of alignment that must be done after a laser replacement? Is a special disk required etc?
Thanks
Matt
I have a Denon 3930ci that is acting up and not reading disks. I bought a replacement laser on ebay from a guy in the UK and can do the install. A question i do have if anyone knows is if there some kind of alignment that must be done after a laser replacement? Is a special disk required etc?
Thanks
Matt
Sorry I cannot answer that for you. I do know that there are some players that require mechanical adjustment of the optical pickup assy. Whether or not your Denon is one of those someone with more experience than myself will have to answer.
There should not be any adjustments required, although I have not yet worked on a Denon of that recent model series. I have frankly avoided Denon's players, due to their consistent track record, since entering the DVD market with the VED0378-equipped DVD5000, of seeming to not give a damn how horribly unreliable the laser/mechs chosen for their players prove to be. They followed that disastrously unreliable DVD5000 with three generations of models in which they stubbornly stuck to the nearly equally horribly failure-prone HOP1200 Hitachi laser/mechs. I don't know if the Sanyo SF-HD60/65 lasers used in the more recent models are any better, but it does not seem so from what I have been reading. Seems like ever since the 5000, all Denon gives a damn about is that their junk barely makes it through the short warranty period. Inexcusable. Used to be a good company.
hey chamberman very timely question I have just bought an immaculate CAL cl25 off ebay for $150 ( bargain) and I will be getting a spare laser pickup to keep it going when it fails one day...
sounds fantastic on cd ....but im thinking the drawer mechanism or gears may also need replacement one day ??
Joe
sounds fantastic on cd ....but im thinking the drawer mechanism or gears may also need replacement one day ??
Joe
Wow $150 is a good price.
I just replaced the VED0378 laser pickup in my CL-25 this week and it is working perfectly now. I picked one up for about $45 off of ebay. I have performed several cold starts and the music is there right from the start, so it looks like the replacement was a success. The replacement is not for the technically timid as it requires a good bit of disassembly. In fact you will have to remove the Matshushita transport completely from the CAL chassis to get the laser out. I had hoped it would just come out from the top, but it doesn't.
Once you get used to how the CL-25 sounds you should look into bypassing the Pacific Microsonic PMD-100 filters 6 dB cut for red book CD playback. I bypassed it on my CL-25 about two months back and I am amazed at the difference in sound quality with redbook CD's. I never would have thought that a 1 bit loss of resolution could make that large of a difference, but it does!
By the way did you get a remote with the CL-25? I have noticed that it is rare for an auctioned CL-20/CL-25 to have the original remote. If you didn't get one and you want an original remote you need one from a Panasonic DVD-A300 player, the model number of the remote is VEQ1926. If you do a search on Ebay they go pretty cheap there. All that CAL did with that Panny remote was to put their sticker on the lower portion of that remote and cover up the Panasonic label.
Hi KC
thxs for reply ....so the new laser is a big job ..well I hope I don't need to do it for as long as I own the Cl 25 ...
Good on you for bypassing the PMD 100 . Removing l these digital filters and output OP AMPS usually does improve the sound ... I may look at this tweek as well sometime ....is there info on web re how to do this ?
At the moment im using a Theta DS Pro Gen 3 DAC so I haven't tried listening with the onboard CAL DAC to compare .. will make interesting comparison as the Theta was one of the very best in the nineties and probably still up there today ??
regards
joe
thxs for reply ....so the new laser is a big job ..well I hope I don't need to do it for as long as I own the Cl 25 ...
Good on you for bypassing the PMD 100 . Removing l these digital filters and output OP AMPS usually does improve the sound ... I may look at this tweek as well sometime ....is there info on web re how to do this ?
At the moment im using a Theta DS Pro Gen 3 DAC so I haven't tried listening with the onboard CAL DAC to compare .. will make interesting comparison as the Theta was one of the very best in the nineties and probably still up there today ??
regards
joe
yes I did get an original remote and manual as well ..well looked after....some people do look after their gear like I do 
and its 240V for Europe and Australia ...just lucky..
One small annoying thing is .. I have a Panasonic Bluray DMP BD35 that responds to CAL remote when listening to music and CAL responds to BLURAY remote when I watch movies...so there must be common infrared circuitry
ive been searching for a good cdp for 6 months or so..then a guy I bought a preamp from in Aus recommended CAL 15 as an ultimate cdp ... I think the cl25 must be pretty close ??
cL 15s sell for 900 or more ...pricey
How does your tray mech slide ...slow or qik ?? mine seems a little slow so im thinking a belt( if there is any?) is aging or that is how they were built ?
joe
and its 240V for Europe and Australia ...just lucky..
One small annoying thing is .. I have a Panasonic Bluray DMP BD35 that responds to CAL remote when listening to music and CAL responds to BLURAY remote when I watch movies...so there must be common infrared circuitry
ive been searching for a good cdp for 6 months or so..then a guy I bought a preamp from in Aus recommended CAL 15 as an ultimate cdp ... I think the cl25 must be pretty close ??
cL 15s sell for 900 or more ...pricey
How does your tray mech slide ...slow or qik ?? mine seems a little slow so im thinking a belt( if there is any?) is aging or that is how they were built ?
joe
I first stumbled across the fact that there was a way to bypass the 6 dB attenuation for redbook CD playback while reading a review for the HDCD PMD-100 equipped Theta Chroma. I started doing some more searching and found this article about another PMD-100 based DAC which responded well to the mod and which pretty well outlines what you have to do. Then I pulled up the PMD-100 datasheet and once I read through that document it became pretty clear. I probably should have just looked at the datasheet to start with, but I figured it out regardless.
The bad thing about the CAL is that the PMD-100 is soldered and not socketed so in order to perform the mod you have to cut pin 19 at the board and lift it slightly to isolate it from ground. Then solder a jumper wire from that pin to pin 22. To make things more difficult there is a decoupling capacitor in the way. I removed the cap to perform the mod and then installed a new e-cap. I am considering going back in and installing a rear panel switch so I can switch the 6 dB attenuation on/off just for fun.
yes I did get an original remote and manual as well ..well looked after....some people do look after their gear like I do
and its 240V for Europe and Australia ...just lucky..
One small annoying thing is .. I have a Panasonic Bluray DMP BD35 that responds to CAL remote when listening to music and CAL responds to BLURAY remote when I watch movies...so there must be common infrared circuitry
ive been searching for a good cdp for 6 months or so..then a guy I bought a preamp from in Aus recommended CAL 15 as an ultimate cdp ... I think the cl25 must be pretty close ??
cL 15s sell for 900 or more ...pricey
How does your tray mech slide ...slow or qik ?? mine seems a little slow so im thinking a belt( if there is any?) is aging or that is how they were built ?
joe
The whole lower section of the CL-20 & CL-25 below the copper shield is almost all Panasonic, so I'm not surprised that your other Panasonic BR player also controls some of the CAL's functionality.
The CL-15 also has a powerboss powered, PMD-100 & BB1702 based DAC section so I would expect the sound quality to be very similar between the CL-15, CL-20 & CL-25. The CL-15 has separate transformers for Digital & Analog where the 20/25 uses a single transformer with separate windings. Other than that and the obvious fact that the 15 is CD transport based and the 20/25 are DVD transport based the players are very similar.
My 25 drawer does open slowly compared to most other transports I have used, but I do think that is normal. I relubed the drawer slides while I had it apart for the laser install and it is quieter now when opening and closing.
ok thxs for the info KC ....great idea re relube
( feel better re mechanism .. thought it was on the way out )
Just noticed u r in Texas ...the best state in US I hear ??....economically at least and maybe even better than most other states social standards
How much do u like living there ??
joe
( feel better re mechanism .. thought it was on the way out )
Just noticed u r in Texas ...the best state in US I hear ??....economically at least and maybe even better than most other states social standards
How much do u like living there ??
joe
Well we would like to think Texas is the best state in the US, but I'm sure there are 49 other states that would argue that point.
I do like living here! I have had opportunities to move out of state a few times over the years and it has never been an option for me. My sister and brother in-law are currently living in Perth, Aus. for a couple of years.
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Hi KC:
My CL-25 just strted acting up this week too: It palys CD's just fine until a certain point and then skips back either to the beginning of the track or to some point earlier in the track. My first thought was to check the cd's for damage/dirt. I tried a number of them that are in perfect condition but the same thing kees happening. My conclusion is that it can only be the laser that is on its way out. That said, are there any pointers you could share re the disassembly of the CAL? I saw a post elsewhere in which someone stated not to forget to remove certain solder tabs from the laser prior to the install. Any thoughts on this. Lastly, it would obvioulsy be a good time to also perform the mod to bypass the PMD-100 filters; can you provide some pointers on how to do this and where they are located? I'm asking for a lot, I know, but your advice would be most appreciated.
Thanks!
John
Although the VED0378 is the second most UN-reliable laser ever made, the HOP1200 used in the most popular Denon dvd players being the worst, it does not sound like a laser problem, but, rather, just a mechanical issue. Most likely, dried up grease on the laser sled guide rail and/or the worm shaft that drives it.
It would be very, very complicated to try to "bypass" the dreadful PMD100 digital filter chip, but pretty easy, just a bit expensive, to replace it with a much better sounding non-hdcd digital filter chip. Just look up ASE Audiotuning. They make a pretty much plug-n-play module that replaces the PMD100 with a BurrBrown DF1704. Worthwile change, even for the price. However, I would be reluctant, personally, to make that investment in a player that relies upon the horribly unreliable VED0378 Panasonic laser.
It would be very, very complicated to try to "bypass" the dreadful PMD100 digital filter chip, but pretty easy, just a bit expensive, to replace it with a much better sounding non-hdcd digital filter chip. Just look up ASE Audiotuning. They make a pretty much plug-n-play module that replaces the PMD100 with a BurrBrown DF1704. Worthwile change, even for the price. However, I would be reluctant, personally, to make that investment in a player that relies upon the horribly unreliable VED0378 Panasonic laser.
Thanks for the suggestions. A "re-lube" sounds a heck of a lot easier than a laser replacement so your advice, if it solves the issue, is much, much appreciated.
The PMD100 filter in these units uses a -6 dB reduction in output level when red book CD's are being played. There were many reports of people not liking the sound of redbook CD's on players with the PMD100 filters back in the 90's and a lot of people felt it was because of this - 6 dB output level which is the equivalent of losing 1 bit of data. Luckily this -6dB can be defeated. To do so cut pin 19 (SCAL) on the PMD100 directly at the board and lift it slightly then solder a jumper wire from pin 19 to pin 22 (VDD2). This will take pin 19 high and defeat the PMD100's -6dB output reduction. I listened to my CL-25 for years before I found out this could be done so I knew the sound of the CL-25 quite well. I found the difference in sound quality with Redbook CD's to be quite remarkable once the artificial level reduction was removed. Here is a link to the Datasheet, page 14 has info on the reasoning as to why Pacific Microsonics included this -6dB redbook output cut. Of course many people felt the reason Pacific Microsonics required the - 6dB reduction for redbook CD playback was to ensure that the HDCD's sounded superior to standard CD's and after listening to my modded CAL player I would have to agree with that assessment.
This same mod was performed on some DAC's from that time period which utilized the PMD-100, an Audio Alchemy DAC and a Theta DAC come to mind.
This same mod was performed on some DAC's from that time period which utilized the PMD-100, an Audio Alchemy DAC and a Theta DAC come to mind.
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