I acquired a pair of Cain & Cain Abbys, and the previous owner refurbished them. Part of that refurbishment included the replacement of Fostex FE166E's with Audio Nirvana Super 6.5" Alnico drivers.
I've never heard Abbys before, but have read much about them. Without working much yet on placement, I haven't been able to get the speakers to "disappear". I'm very aware of what's coming from right and left. This disagrees with what I've read.
I'd like to hear what the original drivers sound like; but Fostex has discontinued them.
Has anyone had experience with the combination I'm using? Can anyone recommend a replacement, in Abbys, for the FE166E?
Thanks in advance.
I've never heard Abbys before, but have read much about them. Without working much yet on placement, I haven't been able to get the speakers to "disappear". I'm very aware of what's coming from right and left. This disagrees with what I've read.
I'd like to hear what the original drivers sound like; but Fostex has discontinued them.
Has anyone had experience with the combination I'm using? Can anyone recommend a replacement, in Abbys, for the FE166E?
Thanks in advance.
My experience with ANs has not been positive in most cases. The FF165K was the originally used driver, FE166 has been used. I EnABLed a number of FF165wk. for these, and a few FF165wk, The last is teh best.
There are a few tricks short of EnABL that amerioate their weak spots.
dave
There are a few tricks short of EnABL that amerioate their weak spots.
dave
A general rule with wide range drivers is to toe them in until they cross at some point in front of you to 'taste' or if set up for a wider seating area, then aim the left directly to the furthest R.H. position and vice versa and tweak if need be.
Planet10, I order a pair of FF165wk's from Madisound after reading a bit. I'm very much looking forward to hearing the Abby closer to how it was designed.
Can you please send a link for the simpler modifications?
I'd previously built the BK16 kit from Madisound. They had the FE166En. I loved the midrange when driven with 300Bs, but that combination never had the dynamics in the lower frequencies the Abbys have with the AN's. I'm hoping the FF165wk's provide a combination of the two.
Can you please send a link for the simpler modifications?
I'd previously built the BK16 kit from Madisound. They had the FE166En. I loved the midrange when driven with 300Bs, but that combination never had the dynamics in the lower frequencies the Abbys have with the AN's. I'm hoping the FF165wk's provide a combination of the two.
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Pre-treatment: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/opinions-on-mods-to-ff85wk.365756/post-6480912 (Post #8)
EnABL (a lot more practise/hand-eye needed)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ng-impressions-techniques.119676/post-1460272 (Post 14/15/16)
the tap test (to figure out where to put the rings) Post #101, same thread.
dave
EnABL (a lot more practise/hand-eye needed)
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ng-impressions-techniques.119676/post-1460272 (Post 14/15/16)
the tap test (to figure out where to put the rings) Post #101, same thread.
dave
Thanks for the info, Dave.
I'm going to break them in and see how they sound before treating them. You must have spent countless hours developing this!
I'm going to break them in and see how they sound before treating them. You must have spent countless hours developing this!
As a bit of additional information, Abby was an empirical development of a Voigt pipe Terry built, and decided to commercialise with his furniture-business. The 'standard' Abby used the FE166E. The 'Nearfield Abby' ran the old FF165K, as did the 'Super Abby' which added a rear-firing Fostex T96A supertweeter. The original FF165K had a T/S spec. fairly close to the FE166E, being a relatively low Q unit, but the shallow-profile modified cellulose cone and central dome meant it had slightly more limited HF extension & a more consistent off-axis than its whizzer-cone stablemate. In alignment terms, it will have given its best with some kind of SET amplifier or a bit of series R to help balance out the LF - midband in particular. The Audio Nirvana is very different -much higher Q, so a voltage source amplifier is likely going to give better results. FF165wk should be somewhere in between; probably a reasonable match.
Thanks for the info, Scottmoose. I'm currently driving them (with AN's) with a McIntosh MC275. My homemade 300B is a 5 hour drive away, and I plan to go get it when possible. Somewhere in between, I'm going to try a Firstwatt Aleph-J clone I built.
The BK16's, while I understand are ancient 🙂 , presented a depth and richness in the midrange I've yet to hear; except maybe for electrostatics. The electrostatics, however, are sometimes cartoonish to me; not that I don't understand loving them.
The BK16's, while I understand are ancient 🙂 , presented a depth and richness in the midrange I've yet to hear; except maybe for electrostatics. The electrostatics, however, are sometimes cartoonish to me; not that I don't understand loving them.
The FF165wks have been installed. After just about 10 hours of break-in, they're already producing vocals much richer than the Audio Nirvana drivers. I'm very happy. They seem more efficient, too, judging by where the volume knob ends up.
They may be giving up a little control and power in the bass, but I guess I won't know until they're broken in.
I'd like to build an Firstwatt F2J clone to drive them, or rejuvenate a 300B I built years ago.
Thanks for everyone's help!
They may be giving up a little control and power in the bass, but I guess I won't know until they're broken in.
I'd like to build an Firstwatt F2J clone to drive them, or rejuvenate a 300B I built years ago.
Thanks for everyone's help!
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They will need many more hours.
You tune the bass with damping. Too loose, add more. Pluff it well.
dave
You tune the bass with damping. Too loose, add more. Pluff it well.
dave
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As a quick suggestion, 'control and power' are most likely in this case a matter of alignment; in general if you want tighter control you need an amplifier with a lower output impedance (higher damping) to keep things in check around resonance. The 165wk, even though it's a higher Q unit than the original drivers, is likely lower than the AN AlNiCo units which were probably finding Abby acoustically undersized, putting a peak in the mid-upper bass region. Less characterful, but probably more accurate as a result. As Dave says though, worth adjusting damping to suit, but I'd wait a little while until the suspension has bedded in properly.
Sadly, lacking a six figure salary, gone are the days of relatively affordable variable DF tone controls. 🙁
Listening to my Super Abbys now. I've had regular Abbys and prefer the Supers with the FF165W and Fostex T96A. I think you may want a super tweeter on the FF165WKs to fill in the top octave, and I highly recommend raising the speaker about an inch or so with spacers and longer screws to the base. I've done this recently and the difference is dramatic... The 165 is a lovely driver. A good friend just built a pair of Bob Brines' straight pipes this week and we installed FF165s today. I think that the Straight Pipe is a better design than the Abby.
Terry Cain was stubborn. I knew him a bit (and his lovely and hilarious wife Leslie) and we had a close mutual friend who tried to convince him to enlarge the port area and not to have the speaker rise to a point. Apparently, Terry was more concerned about aesthetics in some respects than in sonics or math; my Super Abbys had a .47uF cap on the tweeter which is WAY off. They needed 2uF for the T96A to be audible....
Terry Cain was stubborn. I knew him a bit (and his lovely and hilarious wife Leslie) and we had a close mutual friend who tried to convince him to enlarge the port area and not to have the speaker rise to a point. Apparently, Terry was more concerned about aesthetics in some respects than in sonics or math; my Super Abbys had a .47uF cap on the tweeter which is WAY off. They needed 2uF for the T96A to be audible....
Hmm, didn't find him stubborn pre se, he just seemed to be an old school artisan like me that loved our Alpha Romero 'mistresses', so sorry I didn't get the chance to meet him in person.
As for speaker design/performances, like fine furniture, wine/whatever its 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', so to speak and being who/what he was his choices was an extension of himself apparently and why when it got time to get serious about marketing my own designs decided I'd have to compromise way too much, so for the last ~27 yrs been content to expose/educate folks to the 'physics of the situation' and let them DIY or someone build, their sense of 'beauty'.
As for speaker design/performances, like fine furniture, wine/whatever its 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder', so to speak and being who/what he was his choices was an extension of himself apparently and why when it got time to get serious about marketing my own designs decided I'd have to compromise way too much, so for the last ~27 yrs been content to expose/educate folks to the 'physics of the situation' and let them DIY or someone build, their sense of 'beauty'.
diyaudio won't let me start a conversation, so I'm posting here.
Hi Dave,
How are you? I hope you're doing okay health-wise.
I have a line on a pair of empty Abby cabinets, and thought I'd ask you for a suggestion.
I saw the recent (April) discussion here on diyAudio, and it looks like your preference is the FF165WK. Is that what you think would be best for the Abbys?
Also, are you still EnABLing drivers?
I still think fondly of my visit to the mountain - such a lovely island, and a lovely spot on it!
Thanks in advance,
Pete Boser
Hi Dave,
How are you? I hope you're doing okay health-wise.
I have a line on a pair of empty Abby cabinets, and thought I'd ask you for a suggestion.
I saw the recent (April) discussion here on diyAudio, and it looks like your preference is the FF165WK. Is that what you think would be best for the Abbys?
Also, are you still EnABLing drivers?
I still think fondly of my visit to the mountain - such a lovely island, and a lovely spot on it!
Thanks in advance,
Pete Boser